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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (54337)	10/24/2002 11:12:48 AM
From: Sir Francis Drake	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Hawkmoon, as I've told you at the start of our exchanges, it really is necessary to absorb the substance of an argument before making a counter-argument. If that doesn't happen, then there is no productive exchange, at which point I stop the dialogue. Also, it is good form, and also good for ones position to do basic research so as to make an exchange meaningful. And I have to admit that I probably would have been personally inclined to follow the Israeli line... No peace negotiations until Arafat gets his internal security under control and stops playing footsie with the militants. How can an atmosphere of mutual trust and benefit be created when the Israelis see attacks being carried out by militants which Arafat has tolerated and even courted and funded?? Isn't making peace under such conditions tantamount to German Jews buying their own train ticket to purchase a "timeshare" at Buchenwald or Treblinka?? Hawkmoon, this is exhibit one of what I was talking about in the first paragraph of this post. And so - for a productive debate to take place, you need to ABSORB an argument, and then DEAL with it. I've dealt with this issue ad naseum. Rather than deal with counter-arguments, you simply repeat the exact same claims as if nothing has been said. Point number two: it really is better if you do some research first. Illustration: And I have to admit that I probably would have been personally inclined to follow the Israeli line... No peace negotiations until Arafat gets his internal security under control and stops playing footsie with the militants. I've dealt with this. And dealt. And dealt. Either come up with a counter-argument, or a new take, but don't keep repeating the same nonsense that's already been thoroughly demolished. Just a few posts on this: Message 18095344 Message 18147760 Message 18147391 Message 18097450 Now, if you assert 2+2=7, and I proceed to provide arguments for 2+2=4, you should deal with the NEW information and the arguments, rather than keep repeating 2+2+7. I'm not asking that you agree, but that you understand the counter-argument, and that you take that into account in your counter-argument in turn. That you fail to do, repeatedly. As such, it is not productive. And so for the rest of your post - all issues dealt with, repeatedly. But this is the saddest part. Everything you say here, is of the most simple-minded kind, the kind that shows NO research or depth of thought. Just look at your own response to Carl's points. He cites you the Geneva Convention showing that when anyone (INCLUDING Israelis - please, try to take your blinders off) puts armed soldiers OR civilians on f.ex. busses, that's FAIR GAME. To that your response is: well so I say attack Palestinian civilians. But that was not the issue - the issue was that you claimed it was somehow wrong or inhuman for the Palestinians to attack those busses - when PROVEN otherwise, you don't modify your original position, or address the argument (Geneva Convention), but shift to something else. And on, and on, and on. You see, that does not encourage discussion with you, as it seems you are poorly equipped to the task. So, I usually don't bother. And that is not even the worst - the worst is you don't seem to try to explore the issues in any kind of depth - you just skim the surface of the most shallow soundbites of the one-sided propaganda. Now, I've honestly told you what the deal is, no hard feelings, so you understand why you may not get responses. Good luck.