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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: one_less who wrote (64844)	10/30/2002 8:03:06 AM
From: Poet	Respond to of 82486

It is impossible to have a meaningful discussion when the participants are constantly redefining the terms in order to talk past one another. This had indeed been a major source of frustration. Secondly, I've grown quite tired of some of the nonbelievers' tendencies to sidetrack any discussion based on morality and conscience into a discussion of their perceived "evils" of religion. It's tiresome and off the mark. Know that some us understood you, Jewel, and even agree.

To: one_less who wrote (64844)	10/30/2002 8:31:18 AM
From: epicure	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

You can say I am convinced of that, but that would be wrong. I suspect that at the core of some fanaticism that I am familiar with, conscience plays a role. Did you read the definition on conscience? An ethical code as a referent is part and parcel of the word. It is impossible to have a discussion with people who want to make up new definitions for words that already have established meanings. You may not like the dictionary definition, but your fight is with the dictionary, not with me.

To: one_less who wrote (64844)	10/30/2002 10:42:48 AM
From: Neocon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

Well, sociopathy is generally associated with lack of socialization. The fanatic is socialized. But he is not responsible to the wider societal values, nor is he willing to examine the premises upon which he is operating. Thus, he is not being conscientious in pursuit of what is right. This is, however, a crucial element to the development of a mature conscience, and the transition to becoming responsible.......

To: one_less who wrote (64844)	10/30/2002 11:02:48 AM
From: The Philosopher	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

Conscience: 1. a.The awareness of a moral or ethical aspect to one's conduct together with the urge to prefer right over wrong: Let your conscience be your guide. b.A source of moral or ethical judgment or pronouncement: a document that serves as the nation's conscience. c.Conformity to one's own sense of right conduct: a person of unflagging conscience. 2.The part of the superego in psychoanalysis that judges the ethical nature of one's actions and thoughts and then transmits such determinations to the ego for consideration. dictionary.com The problem with 1.a., is who defines what is right? For a suicide bomber, suicide bombing is right. There is certainly a moral and ethical compoment to what they are doing. Very different from ours, but that doesn't make it not there. 1.c., again it is to one's OWN sense of right conduct. Even if that sense of right conduct leads you to shoot random people from the back of a car. To me, that is terribly, terribly wrong. My conscience would never allow me to do it. But conscience is internal, and some people may find that such conduct is, by their lights, right. By this definition, it is perfectly reasonable to argue that conscience is at the core of fanaticism. In fact, if you accept definition 1.c, it is pretty much inevitable to argue that way.