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To: zonder who wrote (2252)	11/5/2002 6:31:07 AM
From: LindyBill	Respond to of 6901

What do you think about this? You didn't ask, but I thought I would put my "two cents" in. Huntington's book, "The Clash of Civilizations" is very central to the issue under discussion. Here is a key paragraph from an article summarizing the book, and a URL to the Article. >>>>It is my hypothesis that the fundamental source of conflict in this new world will not be primarily ideological or primarily economic. The great divisions among humankind and the dominating source of conflict will be cultural. Nation states will remain the most powerful actors in world affairs, but the principal conflicts of global politics will occur between nations and groups of different civilizations. The clash of civilizations will dominate global politics. The fault lines between civilizations will be the battle lines of the future.<<<<<<< alamut.com

To: zonder who wrote (2252)	11/5/2002 7:18:31 AM
From: frankw1900	Respond to of 6901

I fear that we will be living through another era of cold war, with similar cruel tactics, justifiable by the goal of preventing the spread of Islamist rule in the moderate countries with muslim populations. In the cold war the West was resisting an ideology backed by an empire. The present situation, islamofascists against modernity, isn't quite the same. The totalitarian ideology is really only portable to muslim lands. I can't see it taking a big hold in South and North America or even in Europe unless they are invaded by such people themselves. Secondly the ideology is only backed by three countries, so far, Saudi Arabia, Iran and Pakistan and only in the case of Iran is it officially backed. However it is spreading quickly enough that it menaces taking over in other countries and it is supra-national. It may be an archaic ideology but its proslytizers use all the equipment of modern political communication and most advanced weapons they can lay hand to. It utterly destroyed what little civil structure there was in Afghanistan and its cruelty there was outrageous. It has close to ruined the Iranian economy and the level of cruelty there nearly approaches that of Afghanistan. Its expression in Saudi Arabia condemns the majority of its citizens to a miserable existence. It is coming close to destroying Egypt (although I must say the kleptocrats there are doing half the job themselves). In Europe, in areas where it has adherents in significant numbers it wrecks havoc on the public educational system and safety and is basically a parasite. Its adherents' birth rate is causing alarm in smaller European countries. What has happened is that most governments in the middle east are so incompetent, corrupt and repressive they've left the mosque as the only avenue of political expression, public welfare, and education. The mosques have been taken over by Islamofascists funded by Saudi Arabians. It appears that mosques in most parts of the world have been taken over also, or are in peril of being taken over, by these people. So, in a way it's like the Cold War situation, or perhaps more like the pre Cold War situation - a lot of countries being infiltrated by agents of a totalitarian ideology and some falling prey to it. The islamofascists haven't yet reached the stage of a monolithic power which modern powers had to contain and deter since they couldn't attack it. It's different from the cold war situation in that islamofascists are far more decentralized than the Soviets were but the program is only different in detail. The program is fairly straightforward: through murder, and one-man-one-vote-one-time, drive the modernists from all muslim lands, consolidate, and then advance on the rest of the world. In the meantime, they will make into a catastrophic slum that part of the world they control. At some point they will get real control of WMDs and then things will start looking sticky for the rest of the world. These are people who act out of faith, not science, and attempting to 'mirror' their behaviour will not be any more successful than 'mirroring' Saddam Hussein's. They won't stay home. So it's a good idea to destroy the movement now. This is a long winded answer to your question but I think if the modern world follows a program such as I outlined and is energetic now, it has a chance to avoid the worst aspects of the late Cold War, and if it doesn't, it could see something much worse. .................................... I've read this over. It's a bit jumbled, but it coheres in the end.

To: zonder who wrote (2252)	11/5/2002 9:34:00 AM
From: Ilaine	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 6901

>>What do you think about this?<< I think the rest of the world is just waking up to the fact that the Saudi government is funding Wahhabi mosques and schools all over the world using petrodollars, and that the Wahhabi message is very threatening and very dangerous. I think the rest of the world has yet to come to terms with the meaning of Taqiyya and Taqqiyya. I think that in the west, we were unable to advance technologically until we separated church and state, but that this was Christ's intention when he said "render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's and to God the things that are God's." I think that a state governed by Mullahs applying shari'ah law will always be backwards technologically, especially if the version of shari'ah law is Wahhabi. They can preach that Jews and Christians are descended from apes and pigs all they want in their own country, but not mine. I am going to lobby my congressmen (they are all men) to get rid of the tax exemption for churches that preach destruction of the US government. That's not religion, that's politics.