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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: zonder who wrote (55903)	11/6/2002 6:06:11 AM
From: bela_ghoulashi	Respond to of 281500

Perhaps our loss will be Monaco's gain, and justice, liberty, and better than sporadically successful cloning will triumph in the end. :-)

To: zonder who wrote (55903)	11/6/2002 6:23:07 AM
From: LindyBill	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 281500

violence is the last resort of the incompetent, It is just an extension of Politics, zonder. You saw a good example of it in Yemen this week. We are sending a message to the terrorist to "Watch the skys!" I remember a time when there was something called principles and dignity in international relations (i.e. no bullying) Gee, I missed that period. Was it happening when France recently unilaterally sent troops to Africa to clean up a country they were not happy with? No "UN request" from them, was there? good luck in your unilateral conquest of the world, Bill. It won't be unilateral, zonder. Some countries are aware that what we are doing must be done. We are going to have to take down the ability of these "Islamists" to strike us at will. It is going to be a long, tough battle, but we will win it.

To: zonder who wrote (55903)	11/7/2002 9:39:16 PM
From: Hawkmoon	Respond to of 281500

It may be a sad winter for me and others who believe that violence is the last resort of the incompetent, but the subsequent fall of the US empire will be much harder for you, I suspect Bill. And you work for a US investment fund?? Amazing.. It must be a bear fund... :0) What is truly incompetent is that we are seeing an increasing level of disorder with the fall of the USSR. It's a multi-polar being created again and the more irractic and non-democratic states are "feeling their oats" because they know everyone wants to do business with their despotic states (including Americans), while they know we'll be hesitant to exert military force since we're not locked into a "cold war" mentality.. And you'd better hope that the US "empire" doesn't fall Zonder... Because, like it will usher in the longest economic depression we've yet seen in history. Because no other economic entity is in any kind of position to replace us.. And certainly no military capability.. How very sad. I remember a time when there was something called principles and dignity in international relations (i.e. no bullying) and the rest of the world looked up to the US, because it was the land of justice and liberty. That's right... And I believe it still is, if we're willing to show the rest of the world that we're willing to pursue them forcefully. Because those principles were NOT advanced through some soft-soaped, consensus based diplomacy, but through serious economic, and often military, arm twisting.. The US, after WWII, made up fully 50% of the Global GDP. It was the economic power that earned us respect for our principles.. Because we were permitting destroyed nations the opportunity to sell into our markets and dilute our economic advantage in order to rebuild them. Do you know how all the empires of the world stagnated and then collapsed, Bill? 1) They increased their sphere of influence in cover an impossibly large area of the world That's if they decided to unilaterally control those regions, which we're not trying to do. The US is like a referee... We, and the Brits, created the international economic system and the rules that it's played by. Within those rules, the various players are free to exercise their own economic and political policies.. But fall out of those rules and the referee has to step in and reestablish orderly play... THAT'S what the US is being required to do now... Step in, eliminate or neutralize the threat to the "game", and reestablish semi-orderly play.. And it's to nearly everyone's advantage that the US do so... Maybe not some of the ultra-elites who yearn for European emergence as a US rival, but the average individual who would be devastated by the resulting economic "dark age" that would result. The truth is, there are no nations that can currently replace the US as the economic or military leader of the world. Any fall of US hegemony will result in such a rush to fill that power vacuum, I'd wager that hundreds of millions of deaths would result from the military conflict. Hawk