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Politics : Formerly About Applied Materials -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: zonder who wrote (67185)	12/19/2002 8:50:43 AM
From: michael97123	Respond to of 70976

Z, I agree with this post 100%. I still maintain however you are too sensitive--I used the term thin-skinned earlier. I bash out emails all day. I run a business, chat with you guys etc. My emails at work are sharp. Perhaps its an american thing--most folks dont get too upset with me although there have been a few. You europeans are so so civilised and so sensitive.<ggg>. Perhaps you misconstue our nature, our idiom etc. I love a good fight but I am not hostile. By the way in answer to your pm, the term anti-american when used here more often that not means anti-american position or anti-administration. I never thought you hated Americans. I am anti-Iraq but have nothing but the deepest sympathies for their people. In the first war before there was SI, I watched the iraqi army crushed in place by our bombers and buried in the sand. Hundreds of thousands Iraqis died. I was not happy about that then, nor am i now. I cut my teeth on Vietnam--52,000 american lives lost and millions of vietnamese. I know one life equals one life regardless of nationality. If i thought being a pacifist would do any good, i would become one as spiritually i am one. But i have watched the dictators of the world take power and kill millions so nipping that shit in the bud takes precedence for me. What more can i say. Mike

To: zonder who wrote (67185)	12/19/2002 11:05:12 AM
From: skinowski	Respond to of 70976

Zonder, thank you for the very thoughtful post. Must get back to work now, but later will give it some thought and reply. Ski.

To: zonder who wrote (67185)	12/19/2002 1:24:40 PM
From: michael97123	Respond to of 70976

If at first you dont succeed......It is important to me that we can dialogue so try try again. 1."Think of me as half-way in between. If my views seem very different to you (which is surprising to me, actually) then the actual "split" is more than twice as wide." Half way between what. Please define that for us. It comes across after re-reading that you are half way between al quaida and the US. I dont believe you mean to say that. 2."I have never even believed in God, so if I have a sympathy towards people of the Middle East, it is because I lived there a long time and I think of them as human beings just like you think of your neighbours, rather than some crazies to be nuked. I see the human side of this conflict. I saw how those people lived before, how they live now. I know their hopes and dreams about their children. " What does believing in God have to with the rest of this paragraph? I do believe in God but didnt ever consider that to be a pre-req for a caring humanistic person. I agree with the rest of what you say. Refer to my previous posts re: silent majority and marshall plan. "I also know well something you would never guess reading the papers - that the fanatics are a small minority. The rest just follow their traditions - they fast all day for a month, they sacrifice a lamb on a specific day, they pray. They are human. " OF course they are human and the fanatics are a small minority. Do you believe us americans or at least those of us who support US current policy to be barbaric? When i say the solution for a terrorist is a bullet i am referring to the terrorists only. Since 9/11 i have befriended many Moslem and Sikh folks. I have helped them here at work. I worried for their safety and escorted them to work when we came back after 9/11. To a person they all say that only in the US can they get such fair treatment from a people who were attacked by folks with similar religous belliefs. And the Sikhs are particularly thankful for the outpouring of american sentiment toward them when some were victimized immmediately after the attack. If you dont believe me re: this point, ask Fred. Bet he will give you similar response re: the goodness of ordinary americans. Perhaps Europeans dont recognize this trait in us, even Bush is as compassionate a person you can find anywhere. "What I find distasteful is the ad hominem statements - you are this, you are that. It does nothing for the quality of the debate, and increases the antagonism. Let's not fall into that trap and I think we are doing fine... " OK and the above comments on my part have nothing in them that you find as and ad hominem attack.

To: zonder who wrote (67185)	12/20/2002 6:24:25 PM
From: skinowski	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 70976

Americans for many generations have internalized – and have actually practiced – the notion of tolerance, of not criticizing another man’s religion. I think that, surprisingly, few people in America (almost no one until recently) have discussed the connection between Islamic terrorism and the nature of Islam proper. (This issue is not new. I remember how more than 20 years ago some friends – immigrants from India – were theorizing on the subject that “Islam is NOT a peaceful religion”). In the end, it really doesn’t matter. In the end, indeed, most Muslims want to live peacefully, they want to live and let live. The real question is, Will they be able to control their extreme elements? Will they be able to make it dangerous, uncool and unacceptable to be an IslamIST? Will they understand that the new attempt to restore militant Islam into being a world power is infinitely dangerous to them – ESPECIALLY if it succeeds?

To: zonder who wrote (67185)	12/20/2002 6:39:12 PM
From: skinowski	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 70976

>> Think of me as half-way in between.<< I am afraid that the continuum is somewhat like in Ice – Water – Steam… They share physical nature, but they can’t ‘overlap’. They cannot 'adopt each other’s positions' – without losing their identity and becoming something different, namely, one of the two others. >> I am not sure if "finding common ground" is the goal of these debates. I would be happy just with an "understanding" of the different positions. And I think that is achievable.<< I second that.