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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Hawkmoon who wrote (62911)12/23/2002 1:48:53 PM
From: Karen Lawrence  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
And failing that, at least setting the various internal factions against one another to the point that they are not able to directly threaten their neighbors, or the United States... Jordan doesn't feel threatened. Thanks for dropping the snide remarks. I do plan to see Gangs of NY. It's just a movie, though, about NY. Is anyone else drawing your comparison? As Christopher Hitchens said "just because no one agrees with you doesn't mean you're not right", I'm just surprised there could be a comparison. But I have an open mind, so I'll keep your notion in mind when I see it.



To: Hawkmoon who wrote (62911)12/23/2002 2:10:15 PM
From: Neocon  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 281500
 
Most people, most of the time, want to be able to go about their business, pursuing their own ends, without inordinate fear of disaster. They want to be able to make long term plans, start businesses, take out mortgages, plan for their children's education, make provision for their retirement, without having to worry to much that inflation will destroy their savings, or the government will tax them out of business, or whatever. This is true in almost any reasonably civilized society, at least, where there is a certain level of education and prosperity, and the ability to work towards such goals.

It is my belief that this is true of the majority of Muslims as well, which is why you see a movement towards moderation in Iran, for example. Yes, there are an unusual number of willing recruits to enforce the will of quasi- totalitarian regimes, but they do not represent the tendencies of the society as a whole, as was seen when Kabul greeted the Americans and Northern Alliance as liberators, and suddenly pop music could be heard in the street.

Thus, our problems really are not with Muslims- in- general, or Arabs- in- general, so much as with the regimes that use propaganda and police state coercion to mobilize the masses. Topple these regimes, and prevent similarly illiberal ones from arising, and the whole region will become much more friendly.

The fact is that the difference between petty gangs and terrorists organizations is that terrorist organizations have the infrastructure and financial support to do a lot of damage. The reason we hear of groups like Hamas and Hezbollah and Al-Qaida is that they have aid from governments and individuals to set up camps, procure armaments, support the families of martyrs, and so on. Militia groups in the United States have not done comparable mischief, despite occasional outrages, precisely because they are not coddle and funded to the same degree. If we help to create governments that reflect a normalized society, most of the help that terrorists organizations require to thrive will dry up, and we will have solved the problem of terrorism, or, in any case, made it largely a police problem.

That is why we must push for regime change in Iraq. Iraq is the most representative "revolutionary regime" in the region, the one with the largest and most modern military establishment, and the one which is likeliest to make a play for hegemony in the region, taking over much of the world's oil supply and wiping out Israel in the process. The main thing stopping Iraq is the United States and its willingness to be a faithful ally to Israel. Therefore, the pursuit of WMDs and the funding of terrorists, to preserve deniability, is key to Iraq's long term strategy, if only to demoralize the United States and cause it to abandon Israel. Deterrence is useless when you use proxies to destroy Manhattan, for example, for we will not retaliate on Baghdad unless there is no doubt.

If we topple Saddam and install a democratic, moderate regime, we will put other regimes on notice that their days are numbered, and that they should at least move towards moderation and cooperation. That by itself will severely undercut the major terrorist groups, and cause a reassessment of the suicide bombing, endless rioting strategy of the Palestinians. Taking out Saddam will probably create momentum for a comprehensive settlement between Israel and the Palestinians.

If we leave Saddam in power, one day we are likely to wish that the forthcoming attacks were as mild as those of 9-11........