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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Rascal who wrote (63252)12/28/2002 10:09:13 AM
From: Nadine Carroll  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
The headline is that the Clinton Administration was engaged in CONTAINING North Korea

...but they were not contained, that is the problem. It is not a new problem in history, that once you pay the Danegeld, you must pay more and more for worse and worse results.



To: Rascal who wrote (63252)12/28/2002 10:37:46 AM
From: KonKilo  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
Just like to know if I am wasting my time.

Not at all...post on, Rascal.



To: Rascal who wrote (63252)12/28/2002 10:56:18 AM
From: LindyBill  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 281500
 

Has anyone begun to ameliorate their opinion on North Korean events


Your "Lets blame everything on Bush" attitude really comes through, Rascal. (BTW, no need to shout!) The Bush Administration has plenty to answer for on Osama, they were late to the dance. But the Korea mess built up under Clinton, and was aggravated by the horrible decision he made taking the deal that Carter made.

Rather than playing the "Blame Game" why don't you discuss the present problem, and suggest some ways out of it, if you see any? I don't think we can pay these people off any more, we have tried that and it has failed. Or do you disagree and want to go back to the payoff policy Carter and Clinton set up?

We are getting very little to no support from the Neighbors. We have 37,000 troops there as a tripwire that we cannot really pull out unless we are willing to pull out of Asia and see China take Taiwan.

And all I hear from you is that "It's Bush's fault for getting North Korea mad, and lets stop all activity in the ME while we:_____________________________((Do What with North Korea?)"



To: Rascal who wrote (63252)12/28/2002 11:44:27 AM
From: LindyBill  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
This weekend summary from the NYT shows just how dangerous, and how complex, this North Korean situation is.

December 29, 2002
Asia's Splits Deepen Korea Crisis
By DAVID E. SANGER

CRAWFORD, Tex., If centuries of brutal power struggles over the Korean Peninsula could be ignored, if Seoul could be protected, if Asia had a NATO, the crisis that has re-ignited in Korea would lend itself to a swift, if temporary, solution.

Yongbyon, the nuclear plant that North Korea began reactivating last week, might be the perfect place to execute the pre-emptive strike that the Bush administration has talked of as a last resort in protecting the world against weapons of mass destruction.

"All we would have to do is take out one building," a senior national security official said this month, referring to the nuclear reprocessing center where North Korea said it would begin converting a long-dormant stockpile of 8,000 spent nuclear fuel rods into bomb-grade plutonium.

Yongbyon is remote, and the international inspectors who have lived there for eight years were just asked to pack their bags. So the perfect moment for a precision attack would be right now, before blowing the building to bits could spread nuclear material across the countryside.

But then the official added, "If it was only that easy." It isn't, and not just because of the 11,000 North Korean artillery tubes north of the demilitarized zone that could set all of Seoul afire.

The truly complicating factor is how Asia has worked for decades ? or, more precisely, how it hasn't worked.

In the decade since the cold war ended, Asia has largely failed at the task Europe has fairly well mastered ? defusing many of its geopolitical land mines. Even as China and Russia have embraced their own forms of Western-style capitalism, any talk of creating a common security structure has remained just talk. The major capitals ? Moscow, Beijing, Tokyo and Seoul ? have never overcome the centuries of distrust, competition for dominance and open conflict that sucked the United States into three Asian wars in the 20th century.

Now, President Bush's doctrine that America can no longer tolerate rogue states with weapons of mass destruction has run into that reality. He cannot pick up the phone and call the Asian NATO; it does not exist. Many Asians question whether the United States should remain keeper of the peace, while admitting there is no current alternative.

So this weekend, as he settles into his ranch here to rally the world against Iraq, Mr. Bush must now simultaneously rally Asia's disputatious players in a cause in which each has a very different set of interests. It has fallen to him because none of the countries within easy reach of the North's missiles has taken the lead. His national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice, delicately calls the process "alliance management." A more accurate term might be "rivals management."

"The way to understand Northeast Asia today is as a Pandora's box," said Moon Chung In, a political science professor who moves among Korea, Japan and the United States. "North Korea can go bad easily, but the North Koreans know they have the capability to create huge divisions between the United States and South Korea, and with Russia and China and Japan. And in some ways, that is their greatest weapon."

Kim Jong Il, the North's reclusive and odd leader, understands this reality and is playing it skillfully.

So China, which provided much of the early technology that got North Korea into the nuclear business to begin with, now plays a double game: It condemns the North's brinkmanship, but there is no evidence it is cutting off trade. China's main interest, it seems, is in keeping desperate North Koreans from flooding across its long border.

Japan, weakened economically and diplomatically, desperately seeks guarantees that the American military will protect it from Korean missiles. Japanese politicians know that if the American shield is in doubt, the country's right wing will call for a stronger military, and the rest of Asia will fear that Japan is preparing its own nuclear deterrent.

The Russians, once the North's arms and technology dealer, now want to pretend they never heard of the place, even as they tweak the United States for, in their eyes, failing to live up to agreements to provide North Korea with energy aid and for acting antagonistically toward the North.

From the perspective of American hawks, South Korea has all but encouraged the North to flout disarmament demands by continuing to build rail and trade links to North Korea, as protesters demand the removal of the 37,000 American troops who remain in South Korea.

In short, each of North Korea's neighbors sees the crisis through its own prism. "It is, in one sense, a great opportunity for the U.S., Japan, China, with the tacit consent of the Russians, to put concerted pressure on a state that is in the last stages of desperation," Lee Hong Koo, a former South Korean prime minister, said recently in Seoul. "But will we take advantage of it? I don't know if we are ready."

Han S. Park, a professor at the University of Georgia who left South Korea nearly four decades ago, also wonders if the Bush administration is ready. "Nothing in the first two years of Mr. Bush's presidency has forced him to confront just how divided Asia remains to this day," he said. "But now that we have let North Korea go too far, now that they have their weapons and no one has much leverage over the North Koreans anymore, it's about to become obvious."

In public, all the players insist they are on the same page, calling for a peaceful settlement and stability on the peninsula. But that is not a strategy for disarming a regime that probably already has two nuclear weapons, and might, if unchecked, produce five or six more in the next six to 12 months.

Just as every country's interests differ, so do their strategies.

In South Korea, the fear is not so much of a nuclear North as of a collapsing one. The essence of President Kim Dae Jung's "sunshine policy" was to delay that day by investing in the North and reducing suspicions. Now the incoming president, Roh Moo Hyun, has vowed to let even more sunshine in ? at the very moment that President Bush seeks to punish the North.

The Chinese and the Russians don't want a nuclear North Korea. But they also don't want to run the risk that America will end up even more powerful in the region. So they resist following its lead.

The Japanese, as always, want Washington to solve the problem, but not too forcefully.

Like many members of the South Korean elite, Professor Moon admits to conflicted feelings.

"I'm a supporter of the sunshine policy, of engagement," he says. "But I can't tolerate weapons of mass destruction, because if North Korea has the bomb, Japan will have it, and South Korea has to have it."

And as the United States knows from the cold war, as soon as any state has a nuclear arsenal, pre-emption is not an option.

nytimes.com



To: Rascal who wrote (63252)12/29/2002 12:54:21 PM
From: Rollcast...  Read Replies (4) | Respond to of 281500
 
"The fact of the matter is that this (nuclear) program was not started during the Bush administration. It was started during the previous administration. Back in 1998 and 1999, the intelligence shows clearly that North Korea had embarked on a program of enriching uranium. And so, we inherited this problem." ... Colin Powell

Appearing on ABC's "This Week" Sunday morning, Secretary of State Colin Powell challenged host George Stephanopoulos over the former Clinton aide's contentions that his old boss had managed to keep the North Korean nuclear crisis in check while the Bush administration had bungled the situation.

Discussing the standoff over Pyongyang's decision to reopen old nuclear reactors at the rogue state's Yongbyon nuclear facility, the former White House communications director argued that Clinton forced North Korea to back down.

The exchange went like this:

STEPHANOPOULOS: In fact, the Clinton administration said that if the spent (nuclear) fuel was reprocessed that would be a red line that couldn't be crossed.

POWELL: It was crossed. During the Clinton administration the North Koreans had nuclear weapons. That was our intelligence estimate then, it's our intelligence estimate now. And in fact, the Clinton administration did have a declaratatory policy that if anything else happened at (North Korea's nuclear facility at) Yongbyon they would attack it. (End of Excerpt)

Moment earlier, Stephanopoulos cited complaints that Bush's hard line towards North Korea had contributed to the crisis.

STEPHANOPOULOS: I want to show something that Sen. John Kerry said the other day about the administration's policy. What he said (was), "What happened in North Korea is predictable and totally anticipated based on this administration's complete avoidance of a responsible approach to North Korea in over a year and a half. It is the absence of diplomacy, it is the absence of common sense that has brought this on." How do you respond to Sen. Kerry?

POWELL: Well, John Kerry is running for office. And I disagree with the senator as much as I respect him. The fact of the matter is that this (nuclear) program was not started during the Bush administration. It was started during the previous administration. Back in 1998 and 1999, the intelligence shows clearly that North Korea had embarked on a program of enriching uranium. And so, we inherited this problem. (End of Excerpt)

In fact, a November 1999 congressional report warned that the "Agreed Framework" negotiated with North Korea by the Clinton administration had given Pyongyang the capacity to produce 100 nuclear bombs per year.

The study was undertaken by the House North Korea Advisory Group, chaired by Rep. Benjamin A. Gilman, R-N.Y. Members of the panel included Rep. Doug Bereuter, R-Neb., then chairman of the Subcommittee on Asia and the Pacific, Rep. Porter J. Goss, R-Fla., chairman of Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, and Christopher Cox, R-Calif., then chairman of the Republican Policy Committee.

With more than a year left in President Clinton's term, the Advisory Group cautioned that the deal that was supposed to derail Pyongyang's nuclear weapons program had instead backfired.

"Through the provision of two light water reactors [LWRs] under the 1994 Agreed Framework, the United States, through KEDO, will provide North Korea with the capacity to produce annually enough fissile material for nearly 100 nuclear bombs, should the Democratic People's Republic of Korea [DPRK] decide to violate the Nonproliferation Treaty [NPT]," the Advisory Group warned.

The report explained:

"If the 1994 Agreed Framework is implemented and two LWRs are eventually built and operated in North Korea, the reactors could produce close to 500 kilograms of plutonium in spent reactor fuel each year; enough for nearly 100 bombs annually if North Korea decides to break its obligations and reprocess the material."

Officials in Pyonyang acknowledged in October that North Korea had indeed broken its obligations under the Clinton accord and are now rapidly proceeding with a full-blown nuclear weapons program.

The Advisory Group further cautioned:

"Although the 1994 Agreed Framework was essentially aimed at eliminating North Korea's ability to make nuclear weapons, there is significant evidence that nuclear weapons development is continuing, including its efforts to acquire uranium enrichment technologies and its nuclear-related high explosive tests."

In one of the Advisory Group's most chilling observations, the report warned that since the implementation of the Clinton accord, North Korea had made significant progress in developing an intercontinental ballistic missile fleet capable of targeting the U.S. with weapons of mass destruction:

"In the last five years, North Korea's missile capabilities have improved dramatically. North Korea has produced, deployed and exported missiles to Iran and Pakistan, launched a three-stage missile [Taepo Dong 1], and continues to develop a larger and more powerful missile [Taepo Dong 2].

"Unlike five years ago, North Korea can now strike the United States with a missile that could deliver high explosive, chemical, biological, or possibly nuclear weapons. Currently, the United States is unable to defend against this threat."

The report also featured a bar graph that shows a direct correlation between increases in Clinton administration aid and North Korea's enhanced ICBM capacity.

The Advisory group also contended that the "Agreed Framework" had made North Korea "the largest recipient of U.S. foreign aid in the Asia-Pacific region."

"In an astonishing reversal of nine previous U.S. administrations, the Clinton-Gore administration, in 1994, committed not only to provide foreign aid for North Korea, but to earmark that aid primarily for the construction of nuclear reactors worth up to $6 billion," the House report noted.

To read the full Speaker's Report by the House North Korean Advisory Group, go to:

house.gov

________________________

"Has anyone begun to ameliorate their opinion on North Korean events based on some of the information I have posted?"

Perhaps there will be a chance to AMELIORATE when you cease to DEROGATE 1998 and 99. Even then the whole "it's Bush's fault" argument simply DISSIPATES.

Oh well, time to masticate.

www.cantchangehistorybysendingacheck.com