SI
SI
discoversearch

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor.  We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community.  If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.
Politics : Foreign Policy Discussion Thread -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Brumar89 who wrote (1299)12/30/2002 9:35:13 PM
From: lorne  Respond to of 15987
 
moderate Bosnian Muslims betrayed by the West;

Western sabotage of a viable Bosnian peace agreement before the bloody conflict even started;

the Western states' (particularly Germany's and parts of the EU) own role in the dismantling of the former Yugoslavia and their accompanying violation of international law;

the Islamic fundamentalist and extremist nature of Bosnia's Western-supported Muslim leadership, as well as the cover-up of that leadership's own war crimes committed not only against Bosnia's Christian populations, but also against their own people in their PR struggle for the "hearts and minds" of the West.

One of the best hidden facts about the Bosnian civil war is that it was preventable, that the leaderships of that former Yugoslav republic's three constituent peoples – the Serbs, Croats and Muslims (of South Slavic, mostly Serb ethnic origin) – agreed to a deal brokered by Portugal's then foreign minister, Jose Cutileiro, the so-called Lisbon Agreement, which provided for an independent Bosnia and Herzegovina cantonized according to ethnic lines.

This was Feb. 23 1992: The situation in Bosnia was admittedly tense but, except for a few minor incidents, no war had broken out. The Bosnian Serbs had already organized a referendum of their own, with a 99 percent vote in favor of remaining a part of Yugoslavia, but were willing to compromise in order to avoid war. What happened next, however, was that the Bosnian Muslim leader, Alija Izetbegovic, reneged on the deal, which practically made war inevitable. As Izetbegovic himself put it at the time, he was willing to "sacrifice peace for sovereignty." Obviously, sovereignty itself wasn't the true goal – radical Islamic domination of Bosnia was.

Izetbegovic could not have made the move on his own, without outside diplomatic support. While that support was clearly coming from the majority of the world's Islamic countries, along with Germany – which had its own stake in the break-up of Yugoslavia into smaller, "more manageable" units – it also came from the then U.S. ambassador to Yugoslavia, Warren Zimmerman, who advised Izetbegovic that he should hold out for a better deal. That better deal came in the shape of a 42-month bloody civil war with tens of thousands killed and hundreds of thousands of refugees.

Another inconvenient truth that remains little-publicized is the fact that Izetbegovic was not even the most popular Bosnian Muslim leader at the time. That honor belonged to Fikret Abdic, who received more votes than Izetbegovic during Bosnia's first multiparty elections in the fall of 1990. For reasons that are still unclear even today – although much points to pressure from the outside – Abdic stepped aside and allowed Izetbegovic to assume the leadership position, even while remaining his political opponent, advocating peaceful ethnic coexistence either within a reformed Yugoslavia or a newly-created, secular (instead of fundamentalist) Bosnia and Herzegovina.

Abdic eventually broke openly with Izetbegovic during the war, forming his own "autonomous region" in Western Bosnia, which is another fact in a sea of obfuscation for the West's information-satiated, truth-starved media audiences. And then – here's the real shocker – Abdic actually formed an alliance with the dreaded "genocidal," "Muslim-hating" Serb forces, with which he mounted joint operations against the 5th Corps of the Izetbegovic-controlled Bosnian Army, (which was ultimately saved by NATO threats that it would bomb Serb and, by extension, moderate Muslim forces if they entered the city of Bihac). It wouldn't be the first – or the last – time that NATO served as the air force for Balkan-based Islamic fundamentalists.

Reaping the rewards of his peace-making efforts, Abdic is presently rotting in a Croatian prison on trumped-up "war crimes" charges, forgotten by the West, while the openly fundamentalist Izetbegovic continues to be celebrated by liberal Western circles for supposed tolerance and commitment to "mutiethnicity," while he and his followers go quietly about their business of establishing a beachhead for radical Islam in the Balkans, as several U.S. Senate Republican Policy Committee papers have clearly stated. Not surprisingly, Izetbegovic even has a Western prize named after him, and it was duly presented by none other than Prince Charles earlier this month in London to a "deserving" British Muslim. This would be the same as if the FBI decided to halt its increasingly frequent raids on U.S. offices of Bosnian-based "charities" that raise funds for terrorists and began passing out good citizenship awards to their staffs instead.

What does all this have to do with the Plavsic case and her war crimes "admission?" Quite a bit, since it shoots large holes in the basic premise of the Hague Inquisition's case against former Yugoslav president Slobodan Milosevic and the entire Bosnian Serb leadership – that they "engaged in a criminal undertaking" to "cleanse" Bosnia's Muslim population from its homes, engaging in a "campaign of genocide" to accomplish their sinister goals.

Plavsic's "admission" to "racially and ethnically-based" crimes by virtue of her wartime position in the Bosnian Serb leadership is at odds with the fact that she and the leadership not only agreed to a pre-war peace deal with the Muslims (and Croats) but also actively sought alliance with the faction led by the most popular (and least fundamentalist) Bosnian Muslim leader, Abdic, once Izetbegovic nixed the Lisbon Peace and the war broke out.

That behavior shows that there was no anti-Muslim prejudice as such on the part of the Bosnian Serbs but only an anti-fundamentalist prejudice, which could be excused not just in the post-9/11 world but in the one that preceded that horrible event as well. Yet, such behavior is not only being ignored in the Hague Inquisition's version of history, it is de facto being criminalized at a time when the global "war on terrorism" is gaining momentum by the minute. Why?

To keep some old skeletons from popping out of the closet? Or, worse, to appease needed Islamic allies in preparation for the campaign in Iraq? Are Balkan Christians once again going to be sacrificed and slandered for the sake of a new Middle Eastern military intervention? Are terrorists in Bosnia (and Kosovo and Macedonia) going to be appeased while their brethren in the Middle East are supposedly hunted down?

It happened once in the 1990s, and it looks certain to happen again. In fact, the West's pro-fundamentalist, anti-Christian policy in the Balkans has continued uninterruptedly from the early 1990s to this day, and one of the Hague Inquisition's primary tasks is to cover up that shameful policy. There is little doubt that blowback is only a matter of time, with the caveat that a terror base in the Balkans is much closer to Western borders than one in Asia.

An honest and fair approach to the legacy of the latest Balkan wars would, needless to say, have to start from the beginning. If violations of "international law" are to be enumerated, why not start with Germany's December 1991 recognition of the then-Yugoslav republics of Slovenia and Croatia (soon followed by the Vatican and other Western European states), which was a clear contravention of the 1975 Helsinki Agreement's provision guaranteeing the inviolability of international borders except by mutual consent?

And why not continue with the spring 1992 recognition of Bosnia and Herzegovina, which not only violated Helsinki but hardened the Izetbegovic-led secessionists' resolve to "sacrifice peace for sovereignty?" What about the Clinton administration's pact with the Iranians to arm the Bosnian Muslims once the war began, in violation of a U.N. arms embargo? The list of potential violations that the tribunal will never deal with is long indeed.

For the Hague Inquisition and its supporters, the most important thing about Mrs. Plavsic's "admission," in the words of chief Hague architect Madeleine Albright – who testified during the sentencing hearing – was the fact that she "recognized the tribunal's jurisdiction." Indeed, for proponents of global government, the validation of "international tribunals" is of the utmost importance, much more so than, say, determining whether genuine genocide did indeed take place, which in the now-closed Plavsic case will never be known, at least as far as she is concerned. For, in its zeal to gain legitimacy, the tribunal dropped "genocide" charges against Mrs. Plavsic in exchange for her guilty plea to the "lesser" charge of "persecution as a crime against humanity."

Thus, if Biljana Plavsic did indeed perform genocide in Bosnia during the 1990s, the victims have been sacrificed yet again, this time at the altar of The Hague's political requirements and the globalist agenda at large. What better revelation of global justice's true face, where a charge of "genocide" is only a bargaining chip in a diplomatic game, and not an expression of moral outrage by a civilization seeking to preserve and defend its values. Genocide stands in the category of absolutes. Either it happened or it didn't. If it did, there can be no equivocating with its definition, no compromise with its executioners, no "understanding" for their eventual motives, no mercy when carrying out punishment. If Biljana Plavsic did indeed commit genocide, who has the right to let her get off so lightly?

In fact, Mrs. Plavsic originally pleaded innocent to all charges before the tribunal, and spent the balance of the past 18 months in building her defense. Her decision to change course was as sudden as it was surprising, at least to outside observers. It is almost certain that she was subjected to great pressure to admit "guilt," and that she was even convinced that, as she put it, by admitting the imagined "crimes" in her own name, she would take the onus of "collective responsibility" from her own people.

By cutting the Plavsic trial short and making a deal before all the facts could be established, the International Criminal Court for the Former Yugoslavia showed that it is not interested in justice but in a political agenda. "War crimes" and "genocide" charges are to be pulled out of the hat as a political expedient, not as a serious potential violation of accepted human behavior.

The fact that Izetbegovic's forces, according to U.N. documents, almost certainly bombed their own people – in the Sarajevo breadline and marketplace "massacres" of 1992 and 1995 – in order to gain Western sympathy while pinning the blame on the Bosnian Serbs has gone unnoticed by the tribunal thus far, as have tens of thousands of pages of other incriminating documentation against him.

Still, Abdic, the true Muslim moderate, sits in prison (albeit not in The Hague) on "war crimes" charges, while Biljana Plavsic who – as Carl Bildt, the former Swedish prime minister and high representative for Bosnia, testified before the tribunal – "never participated in leadership meetings where decisions of war and peace were made," has been coached to "admit" "crimes" that she didn't commit. If anyone ever wondered what Stalin's show trials of the 1930s really looked like, there's no need to read books or dream of time travel. They are happening right now, as the new year 2003 dawns, in The Hague, the seat of the future permanent International Criminal Court.

Proponents of "global justice" have always pointed to the ad hoc tribunal for the former Yugoslavia as a "trial run" for the permanent court. The blueprint is now clear: Among all the world's conflicts, choose one that fits the needs of a current agenda, selectively criminalize the actions of the "enemy of the month" without regard to the larger context, then fire away the guns of "international law" to finish off the "perpetrator," who has previously been thoroughly demonized by the cooperative, globally ambitious liberal press. Once the instrumentalization of justice becomes fully legitimized, however, ask not tomorrow for whom the bell tolls anywhere on this earth. It will toll for thee.
worldnetdaily.com



To: Brumar89 who wrote (1299)12/31/2002 12:17:11 AM
From: Rollcast...  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 15987
 
War protestor's check lists...

intellectualactivist.com



To: Brumar89 who wrote (1299)1/5/2003 3:13:40 PM
From: Elmer Flugum  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 15987
 
The Holocaust Story Widens

Gay Focus at Holocaust Museum

nytimes.com

WASHINGTON, Jan. 3 — They were called the "175ers" — homosexuals that the Nazis arrested, beat, used as prison labor and sometimes castrated.

Charges were brought under Paragraph 175 of the German criminal code, which outlawed "unnatural indecency" between men, starting in 1871. The Nazis broadened the statute to make "simple looking" and "simple touching" reasons for tracking and rounding up gay men.

The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum here, where two million visitors a year learn about the persecution of Jews under Hitler, has decided to focus exhibitions on other groups, beginning with homosexuals. For two years the museum's researchers combed records, mainly in Germany. The somber result is "Nazi Persecution of Homosexuals, 1933-1945," an exhibition that is running through March 16 at the museum, at 100 Raoul Wallenberg Place SW, and will then travel to New York, San Francisco and other cities. (More information: ushmm.org.)

While tens of thousands were incarcerated and an unknown number killed, few homosexuals told their stories then — or later. For decades after the Allied victory they were subject to the same criminal statute that Hitler's regime had used to pursue them. The law was expunged in 1994, and it was only last May that convicted "175ers" were pardoned by the German government.

Only fragments of their brutal treatment in the Nazi era are known. Robert T. Odeman, for example, who wrote cabaret songs, was convicted for homosexual offenses in Berlin and sent to prison. After he was released, police arrested him again, citing his letters to a half-Jewish friend. Mr. Odeman was sent to a concentration camp, from which he and two others escaped in 1945.

He died in Berlin 40 years later without knowing that his story would be part of an effort to remember the Holocaust's other victims, who include not only gays but also the handicapped, Gypsies, Poles, Soviet prisoners of war and Jehovah's Witnesses.

Since there was so little testimony from the victims or the survivors, the museum built the exhibition around disturbingly meticulous Nazi records. Photographs, cartoons and art from the era show that stamping out homosexuality became a priority for the Nazis even though an openly gay Ernst Röhm, chief of the storm troopers, helped bring Hitler to power. When he was murdered in 1934, barriers to pursuing gays were swept away, and homosexuality was equated with treason.

In a country where bonding began early in all-male youth groups, the Nazis publicly campaigned to stamp out "indecent" acts. Yet "a considerable number of cases of homosexual activity were found in just about every part of the Nazi apparatus, from the storm troopers to the Hitler Youth movement," said Geoffrey Giles, a University of Florida historian, who contributed some of his research to the exhibition. While "deviant" acts were a convenient tool of denunciation in the Hitler Youth, where homosexuality was cited for 25 percent of those expelled, there was also a fear that such behavior was learned and could spread through the corps.

Such behavior had to be righted, the Nazis argued, because homosexuals were jeopardizing Germany's future generations by failing to have children. Lesbians, by contrast, were often spared, because they could be re-educated to assume roles as wives and mothers.

In the Weimar Republic, courts restricted the 1871 law, which carried a sentence of two years' imprisonment, to acts of physical contact. About 400 people were convicted until the start of the Nazi era; then the number of convictions rose tenfold.

By 1936 the Gestapo leader Heinrich Himmler had established the Central Office to Combat Homosexuality and Abortion, and surveillance of gays was legalized. Over all, as many as 100,000 men were arrested and charged with homosexual acts. About half were convicted and imprisoned. Up to 15,000 were interned in concentration camps, where pink triangles — like the yellow star of David that Jews had to wear — were sewn on their uniforms. Some prisoners wore both.

Despite Nazi zeal, no law prevented homosexuals from serving in the German military. The Nazi Party feared that an exemption "could exclude as many as three million men," said Mr. Giles, who is writing a book about homosexuals and the party. When World War II began, accused and convicted "175ers" could legally mingle in the ranks. About 7,000 were convicted but were forced to return to military service, where they were sometimes used in suicide missions on the front lines.

The Nazis distinguished between offenders who had "learned" their behavior from others and the "incorrigibles," who actively sought partners. The so-called incorrigibles were sent to concentration camps, and by 1943 camp commanders were given authority to castrate homosexuals. The exhibition includes a photograph of an operating table.

"They believed that homosexuality could be corrected," said Edward J. Phillips, the exhibition's curator. "That included hormone treatments among other experiments. Also, there was a notion that homosexuality was developmental and those forced to work in disciplined hard labor could overcome it."

Mr. Odeman's case was unusual, according to historians, because some of the songs and poems he wrote in the concentration camp showed that he was part of a supportive gay circle. One theory about why gays were treated so badly in the camps was that they were isolated by fear of associating with each other and so were easier prey for camp guards, Mr. Giles said.

Why where the Nazis so diligently anti-homosexual? There have been claims that Hitler was gay, but Mr. Giles believes the Nazi focus on gays stemmed from close relationships among German men in wartime trenches.

"The defining relationship for the older Nazis was World War I, and they set out in the 1920's to reproduce that feeling of comradeship," Mr. Giles said. "But those relationships could stray into the homoerotic area, and that's what they feared."



To: Brumar89 who wrote (1299)1/5/2003 4:15:08 PM
From: Elmer Flugum  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 15987
 
Chelmno Extermination Camp

weber.ucsd.edu

"The number of people killed at Chelmno can not be calculated from reliable data or railway records as the camp authorities destroyed all the evidence." (*1)

"The furnaces were blown up by the camp authorities on April 7, 1943. Two new ones were, however, constructed in 1944, when the camp activities were resumed. The witnesses Zurawski and Srebrnik, and the captured gendarme Bruno Israel, who saw them in 1944, describe them as follows:

They were built deep in the ground and did not project above its surface; and were shaped like inverted cones with rectangular bases. At the top on the ground level the furnaces measured 6 x 10 m (2O x 33 ft.) and they were 4 m (13 ft.) deep. At the bottom by the ash-pit they measured 1.5 x 2 m (95 x 6 in. ft.). The grates were made of rails. A channel to the ash-pit ensured the admittance of air and permitted the removal of ashes and bones. The sides of the furnace were made of firebrick and faced with cement. In the furnace were alternate layers of chopped wood and corpses: to facilitate combustion, space was left between the corpses. The furnace could hold 100 corpses at a time, but as they burned down, fresh ones were added from above.The ashes and remains of bones were removed from the ash-pit, ground in mortars, and, at first, thrown into especially dug ditches; but later, from 1943 onwards, bones and ashes were secretly carted to Zawadki at night, and there thrown into the river.
"

(*1) This is light of the Holocaust claimed by some to be the most carefully documented atrocity in human history. The new ones were built close to the end of the war. We must assume that the first apparatus was not as efficient as the second.

The apparatus described seems laborious and not conducive to mass execution. Ever try burning a mass that is comprised of 65% water? It is a slow process.

Add to that that all the ashes would need to cool and that evidence as well was washed down the river. In other words, there is no evidence and that leaves openings for embellishment.

"The ashes and remains of bones were removed from the ash-pit, ground in mortars, and, at first, thrown into especially dug ditches; but later, from 1943 onwards, bones and ashes were secretly carted to Zawadki at night, and there thrown into the river."

Ground in mortars also?

"All the witnesses agree that the average number of persons brought to the camp was at least 1000 a day. There were times when the number was larger, but 1000 may be accepted as a reliable average - exclusive of those who were brought in cars. These latter were not a negligible proportion, coming as they did from numerous small towns."

All?

That in itself is suspect. When do witnesses all agree on the details?

len



To: Brumar89 who wrote (1299)1/5/2003 4:30:15 PM
From: Elmer Flugum  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 15987
 
PBS had a program a few years ago that documented the trial of David Irving (a non-degreed historian) against Deborah Lipstadt (a college professor of religion) for defamation of character and slander.

"She has branded Irving a dangerous revisionist, claiming he bends historical evidence to match his own ideological agenda. Irving counters that Lipstadt has conspired to ruin his reputation and threaten his livelihood."

Her accusations were the basis of the suit.

pbs.org

Mr Irving claimed that that there is no evidence of gas chambers at Auschwitz.

He never denied the Holocaust.

He has a reputation for tight, accurate research and documentation in previously written books.

As I stated previously, the lynch-mob of the Holocaust Industry came out of the woodwork and began a campaign against the man labeling him a "Holocaust Denier", which seems to be standard procedure amongst those who are exploiting the Holocaust for gain.

Although PBS website implies otherwise, they gave Mr. Irving's position a fair hearing and the viewer came away with the idea that perhaps Mr. Irving may be accurate.

Is it historical revisionism to state that the Nazis did not turn Jews or others into soap?

len



To: Brumar89 who wrote (1299)1/5/2003 4:33:20 PM
From: Elmer Flugum  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 15987
 
1) The numbers have been "questimated".

2) The jury is still out as it pertains to the crematoriums.

3) Mass graves? Yes, where are all the bodies? Flushed down a river or shot into space?



To: Brumar89 who wrote (1299)1/5/2003 4:41:11 PM
From: Elmer Flugum  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 15987
 
Statistics & Humans Do Strange Things In Times Of Crisis

Separating Fakes From 9/11 Victims


nytimes.com

He was left-handed. He wore a goatee. He had a tattoo of an ostrich on his left arm, and another that said "Namor" — his wife's name — just above his navel. He smoked cigarettes and always carried a souvenir blue lighter from Atlantic City.

On the morning of Sept. 11, 2001, he was wearing a light blue shirt with a navy blue blazer and black slacks, the typical attire of a young man selling stocks for a financial-service firm in the World Trade Center. His name was Michael Young, he was from Brooklyn, and he had turned 37 a day earlier.

There is one other telling detail about Michael Young. He does not exist.

Four months ago, Namor Young began a prison sentence after admitting she concocted a story about a dead husband to defraud disaster-relief agencies. Detectives say that Ms. Young, 32, melded the descriptions of two ex-boyfriends to create a fictitious spouse — and collect more than $53,000.

Beyond its creepy audacity, what makes the story of Michael Young interesting is that there are dozens like it. Since the disaster, many people have been caught capitalizing on the grief and chaos of the moment by fraudulently claiming to have lost loved ones. New York City authorities say that they alone have made 37 arrests, and others have cropped up around the country.

In Springfield, Ill., people raised more than $6,400 for a co-worker who said his brother had died in the collapse, leaving a wife and seven children; no such brother existed, the police said. In West Chester, Ohio, a man was convicted of falsely filing a claim on a $100,000 insurance policy in the name of his father, who was in India when the towers fell. In San Diego, a man was indicted for collecting more than $136,000 after claiming that his wife, the mother of 10 children, had died. She is alive, they have one child, and he gambled away the money at casinos.

Two weeks ago, federal authorities in Missouri charged Cassaundrea Montgomery of St. Joseph with creating a younger brother so convincing that she collected more than $63,000 in aid on the pretense that he had died in the trade center collapse. Ms. Montgomery, who has not yet entered a plea, claimed he always wore a St. Christopher medal and preferred Marlboro Light 100's.

For Daniel Heinz, a sergeant assigned to the New York Police Department's Special Frauds Squad, the allegations in the Montgomery case extend beyond fraud to approach a secular kind of sacrilege. The name of her make-believe brother, Jeffrey Montgomery, followed that of a real-life firefighter in the roll call of the dead that rang through Lower Manhattan during September's first-year commemoration of the disaster.

"Everyone in this squad had friends who perished," he said.

Since the collapse, the official number of victims has dropped dramatically. It fell from 6,729 in the first harrowing weeks to 2,801 by the first-year commemoration, and continues to fall, with discoveries of duplication, mistaken death reports — and more fraud, which has occurred because hundreds died without leaving a trace.

As of today, the official number of dead is 2,792. But that number will probably fall again, said Sergeant Heinz, who has led the squad's seven other detectives in trying to prove or disprove the existence of scores of people listed as trade center victims.

The squad's trade center work is far from over, he said: "We have nearly two dozen cases of potential fraud that we're still investigating."

In the first days after the collapse, law enforcement veterans of the Oklahoma City bombing offered the New York police some hard-earned advice: Be prepared for an avalanche of fraud. But Sergeant Heinz said he and others were overwhelmed at the time with grueling assignments at the medical examiner's office, carrying body bags, notifying family members. Fraud seemed the least of it.

Soon, though, the police and the Manhattan district attorney's office began focusing on disaster-related crimes beyond the theft of Tourneau watches or the electronic looting of a credit union. Here and there among the thousands of grieving relatives were people providing evasive answers instead of solid documentation about lost loved ones.

Several agencies have worked on these cases, including the medical examiner's office, the state attorney general's office, the city's Law Department, and police departments across the country. But the bulk of the caseload fell to the Special Frauds Squad, which for most of the last year has worked out of a stuffy back office in East Harlem, where a fan propped near the door stirs the tight air.

"We've had fictitious victims, we've had victims who have been dead for years, we've had people in prison calling to say that they were dead," Sergeant Heinz said. "And just because we have the case doesn't mean that it's fraud. We've even had one or two homeless people to track down — and we did.

"I used to have a lot of the names of the victims in my head from notifying so many families," he added. "Now I have the names of all the perps."

There is Rosalba Wild, 60, of Manhattan, who said her father had been at a meeting at Cantor Fitzgerald on the day of the disaster; the police found a copy of his decade-old death certificate from Colombia, but not before she had collected $75,000 in aid. And Ricardo Frutos, 49, of Utah, who collected $47,000 for losing three relatives who never existed. And Namor Young, whose description of her make-believe husband was so specific that she even knew his blood type: O-positive. All three have been convicted.

Sergeant Heinz said the assignment had tested the professionalism of the detectives, who must keep their feelings about the disaster in check while dealing with people they suspect of perpetrating a fraud in its name. They have to listen and console as the paperwork is checked and the lies pile up, until they have enough contradictory evidence to pounce.

"It's very hard to talk to them when you know it's a crock — when we were there, carrying bodies," he said.

Then again, he said, some claims are so vague that detectives have to tread carefully; perhaps the distraught subject is telling the truth. "You can be sympathetic and become aggressive later on," he said. "But once you go aggressive, you can't be sympathetic."

The Red Cross has also tried to balance serious doubts with sympathy. "We're expected to help people; we're a humanitarian organization," Devorah Goldburg, a spokeswoman, said. "We don't expect people to defraud us."

It has happened anyway, although Ms. Goldburg quickly added that the fraud has not been due to lack of diligence. For example, in the case of the Missouri woman accused of making up a brother, the Red Cross alerted law enforcement officials after she repeatedly failed to prove why she deserved the tens of thousands of dollars she had received from the agency. "We were trying to give her opportunities to show us proof," Ms. Goldburg said. "We really have to provide people with the opportunity to do that. But the bottom line is that there were suspicions, and things were not turning up."

Disaster relief organizations are not alone in having to weigh compassion with skepticism. Church groups, local governments and news organizations also have grappled with the problem. (So far, none of the people found to be fictitious have been profiled in The New York Times's "Portraits of Grief.")

Suspicion and sympathy are familiar bookends in police work, but the gap between them has never been so distant, perhaps, as it is in that back room in East Harlem. There, two signs hang from the wall: one repeats the famous Hemingway line about there being "no hunting like the hunting of man"; the other was scrawled by Sergeant Heinz while working at the medical examiner's office.

"These are not just names and numbers," it says in part. "They were moms and dads. They were our brothers and sisters. They were our children."

In recent weeks the Special Frauds Squad has returned to more familiar cases: the credit-card scams, the pickpocket artists and the like. But its detectives continue to track down trade center ghosts, hoping to prove or disprove that lives were lived and suddenly ended.

"There are some cases that will be marked `unresolved,' " said Sergeant Heinz, a third-generation police officer with short hair the color of steel. "There are no other interviews to do, no other data to collect, no other door to knock. It's frustrating because you know it's not a legitimate claim."

But in a city awash in post-disaster frustration, Sergeant Heinz said that he and his colleagues are lucky in a way. "At least we have some way to vent," he said. "We can go after these guys."