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Politics : Stockman Scott's Political Debate Porch -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: zonder who wrote (10917)	12/31/2002 12:55:12 PM
From: elpolvo	Respond to of 89467

danke besonders, that sheds a nice fill light on the harsh portrait. -elpo

To: zonder who wrote (10917)	12/31/2002 1:47:54 PM
From: lurqer	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 89467

excessive bashing on Islam these days, by people who do not have an understanding of this religion and its customs. I don’t seek to bash, but rather to understand. I welcome your first hand experience for it is something that I lack. I would like to glean some insight if possible. In particular I was curious about your apparent belittling of the hadith. To be sure there are many hadith, but I wasn’t quoting just any hadith, but that of al-Bukhari. One could argue that this is the most revered of the Sahih Sittah – the six authentic and trustworthy collections. Is Mohammed Nasir-ul-Deen al-Albani wrong when he states “There is no way to understand the Qur’an correctly except in association with the interpretation of the Sunnah”. Or Wael B. Hallaq when he states that “the Sunnah is binding on Muslims has … been demonstrated by Shafi’I (as well as by later jurists) on the basis of the Qur’an which enjoins Muslims to obey the Prophet and not to swerve from his ranks.” In is my understanding that it is the wide spread and traditional Muslim belief that one cannot truly understand and follow the teachings of the Qur’an without the assistance of the Sunnah. Moreover, is not the Sunnah the basis for much of the Sharia? Is it not now part of the law of some Middle Eastern countries, that the penalty for apostasy (abandonment of faith) is death? Is it not part of the Sharia that a Muslim who kills an apostate need pay no indemnity and perform no expiatory acts (as he must for other murder cases under classic Islamic law)? If I have been misinformed on these matters let me know. I not referring to some dusty historical situation with no relevance to today. Egypt is considered to be a more moderate and modern Middle Eastern state. Muhammed Sallam, an Egyptian convert to Christianity, was arrested in 1989 and tortured; he was arrested again in 1998 and spirited away to an unknown destination. Two other converts to Christianity, Dr. Abdul-Rahman Muhammed Abdul-Ghaffar and Abul Hamid Beshan Abd El Mohezen, were held in solitary confinement for extended periods. Sherin Saleh was married shortly after her conversion from Islam. Her marriage was annulled by the government under the Islamic law forbidding a Muslim woman to marry a Christian man. It’s not just Egypt. In Kuwait, Hussein Ali Qambar converted from Islam to Christianity, and was then “denounced in secret, for apostasy, by his wife … after he had received baptism in 1995.”An Islamic court condemned him to die. By “returning to Islam”, he nullified the death sentence. The Kuwaiti jurist stated: “We remind those who want to convert to Islam that they enter through a door but that there is no way out”. In Jordan, “Muslims who convert to other religions suffer discrimination both socially and on the part of authorities, since the government does not fully recognize the legality of such conversions and considers the converts to be still Muslims, subject to the Sharia, according to which they are apostates and could have their property confiscated and many of their rights denied them”. I purposely picked the more moderate situations to show the mindset. I did not pick Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Iran or many others where the laws are much worse. And I discussed only the official government response. Not what happens all to often by unofficial hooligans that just never seem to get punished. Since this post is already getting overly long, I will ignore for the moment many other statements you make in your post that IMO are refuted by history and current practice. I have no desire to “bash” Islam, but I don’t believe a whitewash serves any useful purpose. I believe the Muslims have a serious problem in trying to accommodate the modern world. I only seek to better understand them in an attempt to minimize friction while they find their way. Only they can do this. Any attempt to force an outside solution (e.g. A MacArthur like occupation of Iraq), will fail and likely IMO be a disaster. lurqer