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To: get shorty who wrote (8038)	1/9/2003 11:22:36 PM
From: jt101	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 306849

Lizzie, it was a good explanation of the overall big picture, (message # 7887). As MulhollandDrive says resistance is futile?? About H1B, I guess it is human nature. The other day I was talking to a IT consultant who is temporarily without a job. He says there is no shortage of IT people now and H1B should stop immediately, he may be right. But in the same breath, he supports open door policy in the case nurse / physiotherapist and doctors. When I ask why, he says, too much premium and for any service there is a long waiting time, (except emergency), because of staff shortage. While this is true, Is it a case of NIMBY? (not in my back yard). I don't know...

To: get shorty who wrote (8038)	1/10/2003 9:14:11 PM
From: Lizzie Tudor	Read Replies (4) \| Respond to of 306849

I don't know that I'd argue his point about programmers, but without question the shortage of engineers during the mid to late 90's was not a fabrication. Maybe "scam" is too harsh a word, but H1-Bs were used excessively in the 90s for operational systems type workers, these are DBAs and system engineers and the like... the reality is that this is simply a learned skill and there is no reason to go abroad for this type of "expertise"... particularly when the candidate ends up to have fabricated his entire experience history anyway! I believe that executives in silicon valley (who lobbied heavily for the program) beleived that they could get PhD's and other highly creative intelligent types from india for 50K/year. On that basis, they said- open the floodgates. Next thing you know, its academia inflation on all these operational jobs that don't really require a master's degree, esentially locking out all US based workers who appeared to be lesser-qualified (but really weren't since who knows what the background of the H1-Bs really was anyway!). I am not a basher of any open borders or H1-B or outsourcing programs. I used to think they were a good idea. But now that I see what happened in practice I'm not so sure. Had we started up an inner-city training program for disadvantaged youth to train them to be DBAs and get them jobs that paid 70-80K, instead of spending the same money bringing people here from india, imo we would be better off as a society and on the productivity front. Lizzie