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Politics : Foreign Policy Discussion Thread -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: zonder who wrote (2013)	1/10/2003 6:11:27 AM
From: Bill Ulrich	Read Replies (4) \| Respond to of 15987

Zonder, some of the land wasn't even inhabited. Some of the land was loosely inhabited by several tribes with simultaneous and dubious claim. Some of it was taken by force, and even by unscrupulous methods, as you describe. Some of it was taken by reasonable methods as described in CB's post. No one suggested it was 100% A/B one way or the other. And not very much of it is representative of the Palestinian issue. Cat-fights over every single time-tick detail of world history aren't necessarily ... necessary. So how 'bout Africa. I'll give Ghaddafi 12.5 points in Somalia pre-Saddam-bailout. Over/under is running about 42.

To: zonder who wrote (2013)	1/10/2003 6:56:15 AM
From: Ilaine	Respond to of 15987

Glad to see you are taking an interest in Native American history. My own ancestry is part Cherokee and part Chippewa. I'd be glad to explain the difference -- or maybe you already know the history of the different tribes?

To: zonder who wrote (2013)	1/10/2003 8:31:54 PM
From: DavesM	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 15987

Zonder, You will notice, that it is British officers who talked about sending smallpox to indians. Not Americans. Smallpox hit American born whites very hard, that era as well. You should read the book: Pox Americana. It argues that the British tried to spread a smallpox epidemic among American Revolutionaries. The book documents that smallpox hit the Americans so hard, that Washington undertook inoculating his entire army, during its winter camp at Valley Forge - and that the American invasion of Canada, was in part crushed by the spread of smallpox among American troops. The book shows how this particular smallpox epidemic, spread throughout North America during and shortly after the Revolutionary War (and its toll, among European Americans as well as Native Americans). The book also documents how common firearms were among the American Indian population, by the Revolutionary War. You should realize that if you are a young Native American or Anglo American settler, 20 years old in the 18th century; if the last smallpox epidemic was 25 years ago, you both were pretty much in the same boat.

To: zonder who wrote (2013)	1/10/2003 10:41:02 PM
From: LindyBill	Respond to of 15987

We treat them soooooo good. The MP's on duty complain that the prisoners live better than the guards. Intel of 'Enormous Value' Gleaned From Guantanamo Detainees By Kathleen T. Rhem American Forces Press Service WASHINGTON, Jan. 10, 2003 -- Enemy detainees being held at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, are providing U.S. military officials with intelligence of "enormous value," the general in charge of the facility said. Army Maj. Gen. Geoffrey D. Miller wouldn't discuss specific information, but he said the intelligence gleaned from detainees is particularly valuable when pieced together with information collected elsewhere. "It links with that intelligence that's being developed in other areas of the global war on terrorism," Miller said during an ABC News interview Jan. 8. "It provides enormous value to the nation." The U.S. military has been holding enemy combatants at Guantanamo for a year, as of Jan. 11. Roughly 625 detainees are held in a recently completed detention facility. Enemy combatants who can contribute to America's ongoing fight against terrorism are being detaining while those who no longer pose a threat are beginning to be released, he said. Miller stressed the detainees are treated humanely and are well cared for. They receive culturally sensitive meals and quality medical care, and their religious needs are met. The detainees have access to a Muslim chaplain and receive their own copy of the Quran. They are allowed to pray at the proper times each day. The general pointed out the detainees have gained an average of 13 pounds each since their arrival. Many have received medical procedures that wouldn't have been possible in their home countries. "Our hospital down there has been able to do a number of procedures to increase (the detainees') quality of life," Miller said. U.S. policy came under fire over the "enemy combatant" status conveyed to the detainees. Critics said the individuals should be prisoners of war and be given all the rights that status provides under the Geneva Conventions. Bush administration officials argued against that, saying the men didn't belong to a military force of a recognized government. U.S. officials still maintain that even though the detainees aren't prisoners of war, they will continue to be treated humanely and, to the extent appropriate with military necessity, in a manner consistent with the principles of the Geneva Convention. Simply put, Miller said, detainees are being treated as Americans would want U.S. service members to be treated in the same situation. He couldn't say how much longer the bulk of the detainees might be held, noting that would be a decision for the U.S. government to make. "We will detain them as long as we are directed to while the global war on terrorism is ongoing and until the president and secretary of defense give us further guidance," Miller said.

To: zonder who wrote (2013)	1/11/2003 1:12:27 AM
From: Rollcast...	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 15987

ZONDER, Speaking as a native American: I would ask that you refrain from posting about native American deaths in order to make a debate point. I would hope the post moderator will note my protest. Rollcast

To: zonder who wrote (2013)	1/11/2003 1:42:34 AM
From: Rollcast...	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 15987

To all, Their are so many wrongs and rights regarding the treatment of natives here it would take way more energy than I have so i will get to it tomorrow. WHat I can say now is that, being of Choctaw heritage, my family and many around us have had the honor to serve their country proudly.... Though there are some who blame all our ills on the US, there are a corps of us who, upon review of the treatment of other native populations. Simply KNOW that we are in OUR HOME, OUR COUNTRY, and will fight and die for it whenever we are needed. We also understand that, even if the tribes had united and fought - the results would have been the same. We are proud of our resistance and sad for all that was lost. I had a great great grandmother die on the trail of tears. I also had several family lost in WW2 (2 at pearl harbor), lost my father in Vietnam, 2 cousins served in the Gulf, 4 family members on active duty right now. maybe more tomorrow...