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To: elmatador who wrote (27457)	1/14/2003 12:27:40 AM
From: LLCF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 74559

<You are what you think. > For such a widely quoted person, it's amazing how wrong Descartes was. Easily proven wrong by noticing your thoughts... and noticing that you still exist in between the thoughts. <You mean don't worry be happy? In fact you are just postponing pain if one thinks like that. Reality has a way to catch up with people.> No... you see, thoughts are NOT reality. That's the point. You are assuming that if one is not worrying about the future, he WILL worry about it later. If one sees reality in the moment he cannot possibly be worrying... worrying is thinking [about the future]. <I meant that the individual is not actually seeing 'it'. Before his brain see 'it', ('it' being the real picture), his brain does a conversion from the real picture into something his brain can accept. Into something more palatable.> What is brain, etc. vs the person of course can be debated. BUT, one can certainly 'see' before thoughts, labels and judgements come in [usually almost imediately]. Children of course don't have dialogue going on in their heads about what they are seeing like [some] adults do. The whole practice of Zen is to 'see'.... without the brains thinking explaining it to you. Of course it is possible... not only this, but being accepted my main stream psychology in the west. Agree on BBR... in fact a bit of a ZEN thread... masters hitting folks with sticks to get them out of their patterned heads and into the present reality. DAK