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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: michael97123 who wrote (67957)	1/23/2003 8:26:32 AM
From: LindyBill	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Looks like Rummy really pissed off the French. They don't like to be told that they are no longer important. Rumsfeld's Remarks Draw Anger in France By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS New York Times PARIS (AP) -- French leaders reacted angrily Thursday to U.S. Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld's dismissal of France and Germany as the ``old Europe,'' saying the comments underscore America's arrogance. Finance Minister Francis Mer said he was ``profoundly vexed'' by the remarks. ``I wanted to remind everyone that this 'old Europe' has resilience, and is capable of bouncing back,'' Mer told LCI television. ``And it will show it, in time.'' ``If you knew what I feel like telling him, to Mr. Rumsfeld ... `` said Ecology Minister Roselyne Bachelot on Europe-1 radio. She then stopped herself and said the word would be too offensive to publish. Martine Aubry, a Socialist leader and influential former labor minister, said Rumsfeld's comments ``show once again a certain arrogance of the United States.'' Washington ``continues to want to alone govern the world and more and more without rules,'' she told RTL radio. Rumsfeld made the remarks at a news conference in Washington on Wednesday after the leaders of France and Germany agreed to counter U.S. threats of war against Iraq by committing together to give peace a chance. The decision from the two European powerhouses led NATO to postpone its planning for a possible war in Iraq. Rumsfeld downplayed France and Germany's reluctance, saying he was confident that other NATO members would come together behind the United States. ``Germany has been a problem and France has been a problem ... but you look at vast numbers of other countries in Europe, they're not with France and Germany on this. They're with the United States,'' he said. In responding to a reporter's question about French and German qualms, Rumsfeld hinted the United States would turn to new NATO members in Eastern Europe for support. ``You're thinking of Europe as Germany and France. I don't,'' he said. ``I think that's old Europe. If you look at the entire NATO Europe today, the center of gravity is shifting to the east and there are a lot of new members.'' Washington's European allies are deeply divided over the possibility of war, with the French and Germans opposing any rush toward military action while the United States and Britain intensify their military buildup on Iraq's borders. The Bush administration accuses Iraq of stockpiling weapons of mass destruction. Russia and China have also expressed reservations about going to war against Iraq. On Thursday, China said it supports French efforts to find a peaceful solution, underlining the challenge the United States would face if it seeks U.N. Security Council support for military action. ``We have always stood for a diplomatic and political resolution of the Iraqi issue,'' said Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Zhang Qiyue.

To: michael97123 who wrote (67957)	1/23/2003 7:20:55 PM
From: Bilow	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Hi michael97123; Re: "And does anyone on this thread think that not finding them means they dont exist? I dont think so either." Here's some early thoughts on the subject from last year: Hawkmoon, September 17, 2002 Saddam is claiming he has no WMDs... Well, we'll just state that if we find any, then the punishment for his reoccuring dishonesty will be his overthrow. So to avoid such an outcome, he'll have to "fess up" and tell us where the "goods" are hidden. Make it comparable to the "amnesty box" most of us went through before entering military training. He can have the opportunity to cling to some hope for his continuing to rule by putting his illegal WMDs in the hands of the inspectors. If he lies, and we find some later on.. then we subject him to our own form of "UCMJ justice". #reply-18000368 compare #reply-18326888 Rollcast..., September 20, 2002 The inspectors ARE going in (you forgot to thank your President on that one, Karen)... when they get there they will either find WMD's or be blocked from sites they would like to inspect. When it becomes clear that there actually ARE conditions (and Saddam has lied to Karen). the action will begin. #reply-18013792 Bilow, November 8, 2002 Hi all; A prediction on Saddam and inspections: To predict whether or not Saddam will violate inspections require that we understand exactly what is at stake for him in terms of advantages and disadvantages, and also understand his motivations. ... The only real threat to Iraq is the United States. But the US, by agreeing to UN inspections, makes it impossible to attack Iraq if Iraq does disarm. (And no, I don't believe that the US is like Nazi Germany, which faked provocations from Poland in order to begin a war of conquest there.) In short, WMDs have no real use to Iraq. This makes them a bargaining chip that Iraq can be throw onto the table at very little cost to themselves. ... #reply-18214404 -- Carl