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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Poet who wrote (70853)	2/1/2003 5:16:40 PM
From: stockman_scott	Respond to of 281500

~OT~...Poet: Thanks for sharing that with us... My thoughts and prayers are with the families of the crew members who were on board the space shuttle Columbia. regards, -s2

To: Poet who wrote (70853)	2/1/2003 5:19:53 PM
From: FaultLine	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Hello Everyone; Thank you, Poet. On this sad day, I asked Poet to post some appropriate remarks that illustrate the solemnity of these events. I appreciate her efforts to cast her feelings into words for us today, I, myself, am struggling to understand the deep, almost personal, sense of loss I feel. Best wishes to all, --ken/fl

To: Poet who wrote (70853)	2/1/2003 5:55:12 PM
From: stockman_scott	Respond to of 281500

Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of earth And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings; Sunward I've climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung High in the sunlit silence. Hov'ring there I've chased the shouting wind along, and flung My eager craft through footless halls of air. Up, up the long delirious, burning blue, I've topped the windswept heights with easy grace Where never lark, or even eagle flew - And, while with silent lifting mind I've trod The high unsurpassed sanctity of space, Put out my hand and touched the face of God. -High Flight Pilot Officer Gillespie Magee No 412 squadron, RCAF Killed 11 December 1941

To: Poet who wrote (70853)	2/1/2003 6:01:54 PM
From: Giordano Bruno	Respond to of 281500

Words & music by Paul Simon Many's the time I've been mistaken And many times confused Yes, and often felt forsaken And certainly misused Oh, but I'm alright, I'm alright I'm just weary to my bones Still, you don't expect to be Bright and bon vivant So far a-way from home, so far away from home I don't know a soul who's not been battered I don't have a friend who feels at ease I don't know a dream that's not been shattered or driven to its knees Oh, but it's alright, it's alright for we lived so well so long Still, when I think of the road we're traveling on I wonder what's gone wrong I can't help it, I wonder what's gone wrong And I dreamed I was dying I dreamed that my soul rose unexpectedly And looking back down at me Smiled reassuringly And I dreamed I was flying And high up above my eyes could clearly see The Statue of Liberty Sailing away to sea And I dreamed I was flying We come on the ship they call the Mayflower We come on the ship that sailed the moon We come in the a-ge's most uncertain hours and sing an American tune Oh, and it's alright, it's alright, it's alright You can't be forever blessed Still, tomorrow's going to be another working day And I'm trying to get some rest That's all I'm trying to get some rest For Poet, an American tune

To: Poet who wrote (70853)	2/1/2003 6:48:47 PM
From: ManyMoose	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Your daughter will understand. She'll understand the greatness that brings this country to such tragedy, and the greatness that will hold it together through tragedy and triumph alike. Having been nothing but an American with no desire for anything else, I can't help think that other countries marvel at America's greatness. So this is indeed a subject for discussion on the Foreign Affairs Discussion Group. I truly hope the Columbia's sacrifice lights up the world and sends it on course that will lead to a place where such events are the only cause for tears, and no lives are wasted on the stupidity of war.

To: Poet who wrote (70853)	2/1/2003 7:07:11 PM
From: BubbaFred	Respond to of 281500

Poet, I share your shocking grief. It was an absolutely tragic and very numbing news for me. I grew up idolizing the space program and what it means for America, mankind, and science.

To: Poet who wrote (70853)	2/1/2003 8:06:14 PM
From: William B. Kohn	Respond to of 281500

I only wish I could say things as well as you did. I am in shock and mourn the world's loss! Hero's, that's what they were!

To: Poet who wrote (70853)	2/2/2003 11:55:34 AM
From: goldworldnet	Respond to of 281500

I watched every single launch of the Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo missions while sitting in classrooms at school and the impact of it all was enormous for me. When I was 15 years old, 3 generations of my family watched Apollo 11 together with pride and amazement as Neil Armstrong became the first man to set foot on the moon. Little did we know that the Lunar Lander had mere seconds of fuel left before it would have crashed onto the moon's surface. Space is the last frontier and I have been sadly disappointed that the Star Trek generation has been stuck on the Holodeck and more interested in movies about space than actually going there. NASA has been grossly under funded and the space dividend is far greater than most realize. I grieve with the families of the great heroes we lost yesterday. There is no reset switch in life and we should fully utilize the gifts that God has given us. Here are a few links, but a bit of trivia most do know is that after the Apollo 1 fire, there was no Apollo 2 though 6. The next Apollo mission was Apollo 7. White House Go-Ahead On NASA Nuclear Prometheus Project Message 18505424 (Challenger Disaster) Studies in Ethics, Safety, and Liability for Engineers tsgc.utexas.edu Neil Armstrong starchild.gsfc.nasa.gov * * *

To: Poet who wrote (70853)	2/3/2003 2:26:25 AM
From: stockman_scott	Respond to of 281500

~OT~...Investigation of a Tragedy Lead Editorial The New York Times February 3, 2003 Even as we grieve the loss of the space shuttle Columbia and its crew of seven, the nation must gird itself for a searching inquiry into just what happened, and why. It is not enough to accept NASA's assurances that the space agency will find the problem, fix it and move on, carrying the nation's banner back into space. Rather this tragedy, like that which befell the Challenger in 1986, requires an aggressive, no-holds-barred inquiry by a presidential commission charged to evaluate not only the technical roots of this failure but also whether any management mistakes, budget cuts, loss of engineering talent or deep-seated cultural traditions at NASA may have contributed. Space officials are quite right to warn that it is premature to focus on any particular theory of what happened. One issue that will certainly be explored is the possibility of damage to the tiles that protect the shuttle from the intense heat generated when it re-enters the Earth's atmosphere. When Columbia lifted off 16 days earlier, a piece of debris, believed to be foam insulation, broke off from the external fuel tank and appeared to hit the shuttle on the left wing, the same wing where sensors failed shortly before the Columbia broke up almost 40 miles overhead. That inevitably makes one wonder if the debris might have damaged the tiles or other critical areas of the wing. Investigators will also need to consider such possibilities as an explosion of fuels kept on board, a structural failure in the aging shuttle, faulty flight control during re-entry, and even such remote possibilities as terrorist sabotage or collision with an object in space. But in the end, the accident could turn out to be caused by something no one ever imagined could happen in the complex and delicate spacecraft as it interacts with its unforgiving environment. Space flight is inherently risky, and the shuttle fleet's success rate — 2 catastrophic failures in 113 flights — seems roughly in line with other space-rocket systems. Beyond the technical inquiry, it will be imperative to look more broadly at the space agency's management of the shuttle program. It is disquieting to note that only last year the outgoing chairman of the Aerospace Safety Advisory Panel told Congress that he had never been so worried about shuttle safety as right now, mostly because safety upgrades were being postponed due to budget constraints. Although safety had not yet been compromised, he said, "nobody will know for sure when the safety margin has been eroded too far." Five of nine members of that safety panel and two consultants were removed, with some now accusing NASA of trying to suppress their criticism. Then there is the perplexing issue of the mind-set at NASA. The immediate cause of the Challenger accident 17 years ago was a faulty seal on a booster rocket that failed to close properly in cold weather, allowing hot gases to escape and trigger a conflagration. But the deeper cause was institutional. The seal problems had been analyzed for years by NASA, and the consensus was always that the shuttles were safe to fly. That confidence grew stronger with each passing flight — until it was blown to smithereens on a cold day in January 1986. When listening to NASA officials at their initial press conference on the Columbia accident, it was hard not to wonder if history could be repeating itself. Shuttle managers acknowledged that debris had broken away from the external tank on another recent shuttle flight. It hit one of the booster rockets, causing superficial damage, but was judged not to threaten shuttle safety. When debris broke loose again on this flight and hit the shuttle's wing, experts concluded that this event, too, did not threaten safety. Several years ago shuttles suffered tile damage from debris impacts and even lost portions of tiles, a problem said to be resolved. Always the damage was judged no threat to safety. Nobody knows if the debris shed during Columbia's launch caused this accident, but if it turns out to be the culprit, investigators will need to analyze how the technical reviews came to discount the problem. With the future of NASA and the shuttle program hanging on the outcome, the investigation must be as open and forthright as possible. It is perfectly appropriate for NASA and its contractors to take the lead in analyzing the technical failure. But it is discouraging that NASA, which famously tried to cover up its shortcomings in the early stages of the Challenger investigation, has chosen to convene an oversight board of safety officials from military and civilian agencies to give its investigation credibility. Whatever the qualifications of those individuals, they have neither the stature nor true independence needed for an accident of this magnitude. An independent presidential commission with distinguished members from the private sector investigated the Challenger accident. President Bush should appoint a similar panel to investigate this one while Congress pursues its own inquiries. nytimes.com

To: Poet who wrote (70853)	2/3/2003 12:20:24 PM
From: Maurice Winn	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Hey Granny, cheer up. It's just our dreams going kablooey. Okay so we are being ground back down to earth. Twin Towers gone, no more Moon walks. Gangsta Rap filling the top 20. No "Imagine" by John Lennon. But at least we haven't had MAD. In the good old days, people actually had fallout shelters [with some blast resistance too]. Now everyone is living above ground again. Sure Osama, Saddam and Mugabe aren't the world's nicest guys, but they are rank amateurs compared with what our parents had to deal with. Heck, Mugabe is positively civil compared with the most ordinary thug of 30 years ago. Our parents had Tojo, Hitler and Stalin to deal with - they had serious talent at world-class mayhem. Before that, the world was a seething cauldron of rank and file, warrior and samurai, red in tooth and claw. Filled with disease, pestilence and regular famine. Slavery was a kindly way of letting surplus people live. Genocidal conquest was the norm. With no contraception the prolific numbers of babies had to go somewhere. To the grave at a young age was the final solution. The Columbia crash is from a people point of view little more than a bad car crash. Across the world, swarms of them have happened, not to mention a train wreck in Oz. As a geopolitical, technological, scientific and economic event, it's merely a glitch, drawing attention once again to the courage and talent of the USA to lead the world in so many ways. Swarms of us from around the world invest in the USA, go to work there and otherwise look on the achievements as ours too. The Israeli, the Indian, the International Space Station crew, are all part of the same desire. They are ours too. We just have to be like the Brits in the Blitz. Somewhat stoic. If the Twin Towers, Bali and Columbia are the worst we have to deal with, we should not whine. No generation has had it so easy. We have to watch tv to see bad stuff. Looking out our window to see the mayhem or waiting for the door to be kicked in isn't part of many lives these days. I suspect the financial softening up after the Y2K Nasdaq implosion has made a lot of people feel vulnerable too, so these things make it seem that stuff is coming from all directions. Mqurice