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Politics : Foreign Policy Discussion Thread -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Neocon who wrote (3450)	2/6/2003 10:29:44 AM
From: skinowski	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 15987

The United Nations charter is not a suicide pact. Absolutely. Couldn’t be said better. Alpha and omega in but a few words. Personally, I am very glad that Zonder posts on this thread (thank you, Zonder!). She keeps us all interested and sharp, which is great. About changing her mind… that’s her personal business. She’ll do as she will. Can’t expect to persuade everyone… The reward for trying is in the process… -g. A political issue, when properly thought through, becomes sort of boring. You just sit back and watch – will they do the correct thing, or not. It’s almost like watching grass grow. Without a little passion and controversy many would probably walk away. Hey, zonder, totally disagree, but… thanks again! –bg. Ol’Ski @Opinionated.com

To: Neocon who wrote (3450)	2/6/2003 11:27:22 AM
From: zonder	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 15987

Thanks for this, Neocon. You have perfectly summed up my position.

To: Neocon who wrote (3450)	2/6/2003 6:43:23 PM
From: Machaon	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 15987

<< Remember, Europe has experienced two major blood- lettings in the last hundred years, >> And........... America has had to bail them out both times. Now, America is at risk, and Europe is saying, "peace with honor -- peace in our time". << International law holds as a bedrock principle that aggressive war is illegal, and that the only justification is self- defense, or war waged in aid of persons being attacked. >> Bosnia....... Rwanda....... Kosovo........ Kuwait....... Columbia...... Lebanon........ Somalia......... Zimbabwe..... It sure seems like a bedrock, without the "rock". It's interesting that the UN has failed to prevent brutal wars, and genocides, against the world's families. Will Iraq be added to the list of UN and "international law" failures? << Since this is, in fact, in essence defensive war, it is not clearly in violation of the spirit of the principle, but it does expand the notion of legitimate defense. >> Has a "legitimate" preemptive strike ever been done before? << The threat of unilateralism creates even more alarm, since there can be no international law without an institutional framework ... >> For America, though, International Law administered by a UN filled with rouge states and thugs, is like handing over the keys of the jail to the inmates. << You and I understand that there is no real international law, absent a sound framework for adjudicating and enforcing agreements ... >> Many think that the UN is some godlike organization, who's purpose is "doing the right thing". The UN is inundated by incompetent bureaucrats, racists and third world thugs. It tries to impose international law selectively. << The United Nations charter is not a suicide pact. >> With Bush as President, is isn't. If Gore had won, it might have been. By the way, yours was an excellent, very interesting post. Thanks!