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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Jacob Snyder who wrote (72164)	2/7/2003 2:43:15 PM
From: Nadine Carroll	Respond to of 281500

Trouble is, the Muslim world is not just fighting us, they are fighting themselves...and losing. In Pakistan, a crucial ally in the war on terrorism, 81 percent of the public resents the spread of U.S. ideas and customs How are American ideas and customs being spread? Movies, television, McDonald's, Coca-cola. In what manner does the American government impose these things on the Pakistani population? In no manner, of course; they are sold to willing consumers. But foreign ideas come in with the foreign products. This anti-Americanism is just one thread in the tapestry of the civil war in a place like Pakistan, that has modern cities, a feudal countryside, and few working institutions of government or civil society.

To: Jacob Snyder who wrote (72164)	2/7/2003 2:49:56 PM
From: aladin	Respond to of 281500

Jacob, Most of the conditions for this already exist: 1. our soldiers are already in most of those counties 2. we can't withdraw, as that area holds a natural resource we can't do without 3. public opinion in that vast region is strongly against our WarOnTerrorism Comments: 1. Apart from embassies you are overstating this - we have soldiers in a few of these countries (eg Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Gulf States and Pakistan, but not Malaysia, Indonesia, India, Morroco, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Lebannon, Syria, Sudan, Ethiopia, Somalia, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and Burma) 2. agreed 3. public opinion hated us before 9/11 when US troops were mainly deployed to defend Islam (Kuwait, Bosnia, Kosovo), public opinion there also applauded 9/11 To achieve 3, you would have to withdraw (see your point 2). Also you would have to help these same populations with a little genocide in Israel. Since you love polls so much - remember, the Arab street wants Israel driven into the sea (only Egypt and Jordon have made peace and even there public opinion still favors a 'final solution'). Ergo - force. They love us in central asia now - check the polls in the former Soviet Republics & Afghanistan :-) John

To: Jacob Snyder who wrote (72164)	2/7/2003 2:59:30 PM
From: bela_ghoulashi	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

We've been over this ground before. However much these countries don't like us, they detest their own governments even more. And those results are stated in the study. They're just not given as much dramatic attention.

To: Jacob Snyder who wrote (72164)	2/7/2003 3:31:30 PM
From: carranza2	Respond to of 281500

A fine effort as far as documenting Islamic dislike for us, which most of us already know. Ever try to document "our" dislike for "them"? Shouldn't "they" be trying to win "our" hearts and minds instead of terrorizing them? There is an unbridgeable failure in your analysis: If they continue to use terror while we try to win their hearts and minds, we are lost. The proper response is an aggressive one coupled with a "hearts and minds" approach, but the two are possibly incompatible. And there is yet another problem. In my previous post to you, I noted the paradox created by trying to show freedom and democracy as a viable alternative to Islamic radicalism. In my view, it is the unraveling of this paradox that will lead to progress. Unfortunately, the only means I see are to curtail our own democracy and our own freedoms, options which are not palatable. Do we continue to export our culture and mores to unreceptive minds who are offended by them or do we become more conservative in these things simply to (maybe) assuage their hatred? My view is that we treat them as adults, instead of as unruly children who need to be disciplined. If they threaten and terrorize us, the culprits should be made to pay. And the hell with the deleterious effect on their precious hearts and minds.

To: Jacob Snyder who wrote (72164)	2/7/2003 5:27:44 PM
From: LindyBill	Respond to of 281500

What they think of us: Look upon their view of us the way that we look upon parents dislike of the appeal of "Gangsta Rap" to their children. They can dislike it all they want, but there is not much they can do about it. These people may not like our ideas, but they sure bur our products! And don't get too wrapped up in whither they "Like" or "dislike" us when it comes to Foreign Affairs. Rather, ask if they respect or fear us. That is counts in dealing with them.

To: Jacob Snyder who wrote (72164)	4/10/2003 9:04:40 PM
From: Jacob Snyder	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Americans Upbeat Over U.S. Success in Baghdad POLL ANALYSES April 10, 2003 by David W. Moore GALLUP NEWS SERVICE PRINCETON, NJ -- Americans are far more upbeat today than they were even a day ago, as news reports suggest Saddam Hussein's regime has collapsed. Compared with people's feelings on Monday and Tuesday, a CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll Wednesday evening found Americans significantly more likely to say that the situation in Iraq is worth going to war over and that the war itself has gone very well. Still, Americans take seriously the warning of administration officials, including the president, that the war is not over, though most believe that at worst only minor fighting remains. Despite uncertainty among U.S. officials as to whether a U.S. bombing mission early this week killed Saddam, most Americans believe he is still alive. About half the public believes victory cannot be claimed until he is captured or killed. In looking to the future, Americans are about evenly divided over whether the United States or the United Nations should control Iraq until a new Iraqi government is created. But 8 in 10 say they would support Bush if he says the United States should assume that responsibility. Positive Reaction to Success of Troops The poll, conducted the evening of April 9, shows that 76% of Americans say the situation in Iraq is worth going to war over, up from 67% who expressed that sentiment in a Gallup Poll conducted April 7-8. --------------------- Approval of Rumsfeld by Subgroup While a majority of all political groups approve of the job Rumsfeld is doing, Republicans, naturally, are more likely to say they approve. Eighty-nine percent of Republicans approve, compared with 67% of independents and 54% of Democrats. gallup.com ------------------- my comment: Americans seem willing to give the President wide lattitude and trust. Americans wanted UN approval before the war, and half want the UN to manage Iraq post-war, but by huge majorities are willing to support the President's unilateral action. Even during that mid-war brief "pause", before any urban areas had fallen, Americans thought the war would be harder than it turned out to be, but still supported it 70%.