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Politics : Impeach George W. Bush -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: KonKilo who wrote (19514)	2/11/2003 10:23:58 AM
From: jlallen	Respond to of 93284

WHAT happened to the passengers who were on the flight that crashed into the Pentagon....is Barbara Olson part of the conspiracy? How did they rig all those cell phone calls to relatives??? JLA

To: KonKilo who wrote (19514)	2/11/2003 11:28:55 AM
From: Mighty_Mezz	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 93284

What to believe, the official version, or the laws of physics? This is a pic of "The exit hole where American Airlines Flight 77 finally stopped after penetrating the Pentagon" asile.org The official version says that hole was punched by the nose of the airliner. However: The nose of an aircraft, the radome, contains its electronic navigation equipment. To enable the transmission of signals, the nose is not made of metal but carbon. Its shape has been designed to be aerodynamic but is not crash resistant. The inside casing, as well as its contents, are extremely fragile. The nose would crush on impact with an obstacle, not penetrate it. ... The official version is complex and contradicts itself, so read on carefully. To justify the absence of Boeing debris, the authorities explained that the aircraft was pulverized when it impacted with such a highly reinforced building as the Pentagon. To explain the disappearance of the aircraft's more resistant components, like the engines or brakes, we were told that the aircraft melted (with the exception of one landing light and its black boxes). To justify the absence of 100 tons of melted metal, experts attempted to show that the fire exceeded 2500 °C, leading to the evaporation of parts of the aircraft (but not of the building itself or, clearly, of the landing light or black boxes). To justify the presence of the hole, officials now state that it was caused by the nose of the aircraft, which, despite the rigors of the crash, continued careering through the three buildings. The aircraft thus disintegrated on contact with the Pentagon, melted inside the building, evaporated at 2500° C and still penetrated two other buildings via a hole 2 ½ yards in diameter. Questions need to be asked of Pentagon experts here. The official version has its own holes that need filling. asile.org

To: KonKilo who wrote (19514)	2/11/2003 1:01:36 PM
From: Lazarus_Long	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 93284

I can think of a couple of reasons offhand. One is that at some point DOJ hopes to get prosecutions. Evidence is quite commonly withheld in criminal prosecutions until the discovery process begins. Another is that in fact the gov't did screw up and doesn't want to admit it. There were missed warnings which would be part of an investigation and would be embarrassing for NSA, DOD, and CIA at least. There is the question of why USAF jets weren't scrambled once the planes went off course. (And THAT raises a question foe those making the allegation they should have been. Should they have? Is this still policy? That was a Cold War tactic and the Cold War is 15 years dead.) Assuming military jets should have scrambled, a USAF general or maybe Rumsfield himself may have decided that that wasn't needed since they knew those planes were US commercial flights originating from US domestic airports. And they had no idea what was coming. They probably thought these were just some more hijackings and they would make things more dangerous for the passengers and crew if USAF jets showed up. After Pearl Harbor, there was resistance on the part of the administration to have an investigation. They knew they had screwed up. Finally, public and Congressional pressure forced one. The result was a whitwash: It was all the fault of General Short and Admiral Kimmel, the commanders in Hawaii. (The usual military response is to lay blame at the lowest cedible level. Witness My Lai.) It was not until decades later, when Ultra material started being released, that it became apparent just how much Washington really did know about an impending attack and withheld from field commanders. Now the above is speculative. But it is no more speculative than the conspiracy theory being proposed. (Re Hawaii: You are aware, aren't you, that you are in the same corner as a guy who believes the conspiracy theory about Pearl Harbor: that your liberal hero FDR provoked it, knew it was coming, ordered information withheld, and welcomed it?)

To: KonKilo who wrote (19514)	2/11/2003 1:06:23 PM
From: bearshark	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 93284

ShilohCat: I looked at the CNN tape that shows a frame by frame view of the 757. In that series of clips, I pointed out that the 757 appears directly above the traffic control box to the right. Someone posted this series of photos. members.rogers.com Look at the first still shot below the video. You will see the 757 to the right of the traffic control box. It is as clear as that day in September. While you watch the first still photo, look up at the video. You can see how the 757 moves through the video. There is one other thing to notice. Go back to my post about the CNN video and still photos. They show one frame when the 757 is directly above the traffic control box. When you view the rogers.com video and remember the CNN video you can picture the missing frame in your head. Together, they show a 757 with a tall vertical wind moving towards the Pentagon. The vertical wings on the Boeing two-engined airliners have those tall vertical wings. They are distinctive and they are taller than a cruise missile is long. I realize there are various accounts of that day and the attack on the Pentagon. I have posted several accounts here by a priest, etc. Each supports the series of photos we see. I couldn't find the actual dimensions of a Pentagon side but I estimate they are from 500 to 1,000 feet. (That is based on my memory from walking that service road in the photo next to the Pentagon many times.) The photos you look at in the clips and video show the southwest side of the Pentagon. Imagine that edge of that wall being from 12 to 6 on a clock. The 757 that hit the plane in that photo approached the Pentagon from about 1 to 2 o'clock. It hit it at an angle. I don't think a 20 foot cruise missile could be seen from the distance of those two traffic contyrol boxes. I don't know if there are any "official accounts" of what happened. There were simply too many witnesses that saw the plane hit the Pentagon. Here is an article in today's Post about one of the individuals profiting from this tragedy. Similar popular sentiment in France helped make a runaway bestseller of a book that claimed the Sept. 11 attacks were carried out not by al Qaeda, but by a right-wing cabal in the U.S. government. The book, published in English as "The Big Lie," was dismissed as crackpot speculation by even the most left-wing of French journalists. But when its author, Thierry Meyssan, expounded his thesis on a popular late-night television talk show, sales took off. The book sold 100,000 copies in 10 days, according to its publisher, Patrick Pasin of Carnot books, and has sold more than 500,000 copies in France and other countries. Meyssan, the proprietor of a small, activist left-wing Web site, has been hailed in France and in the Arab world as a courageous truth-teller up against the American leviathan. While some observers here have attributed the popularity of "The Big Lie" to France's obsession with conspiracy theories, others see it as one barometer of just how far anti-Americanism has spread into the mainstream. Guillaume Dasquie, a French journalist who co-wrote a book, "The Horrifying Lie," that dismantled Meyssan's claims page by page, said he has seen a marketing study indicating that many of those who purchased Meyssan's book are newcomers to book buying. "The idea of Americans as victims was too unsettling for many ordinary people," said Francois d'Alancon, chief foreign correspondent for La Croix, a Catholic newspaper. "It contradicted their normal view of the world. But with Meyssan's theory, the Americans are the villains again. They become the ones responsible for these terrible events. It's much more acceptable." washingtonpost.com I read one note here about a mysterious video taken by a gas station's security camera. According to the note, someone will not disclose the video. Unfortunately, there are no gas stations that could have taken such a video of the Pentagon. I cannot tell you or ask you what to think.