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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: hmaly who wrote (161115)	2/14/2003 6:16:18 PM
From: tejek	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 1573851

Turkey already understands that its not personal; that Germany is failing to comply in order to piss off the US. Possibly. If Turkey did understand that, then why did Turkey call an emergency meeting Monday, and resubmit the proposal; just to embarrass Schroeder. No. In one of the articles I've posted in the last week, there was a brief interview with the Turkish rep to NATO. He said he understood what Germany was doing; that Turkey did not take personal offense; however, he felt it was still incumbent upon Turkey to protect its interests. Turkey has three problems associated with this war......its people are very opposed to the war; secondly, the threat of war is hurting Turkish businesses along their border with Iraq, aggravating conditions in a country already very poor, and thirdly and most importantly, Turkey is at risk of Iraqi retaliation for their cooperation with the US. Its why we had to buy them. And that's why I say its incumbent upon the Turks to protect their butts. Germany understands that and that's why it went ahead and sent the missiles it had promised to Turkey but not under the auspices of NATO. Trust me, our gov't gets the German intent loud and clear......that's why Bush is pissed. However, Germany decided to go the extra mile by providing the missiles outside the auspices of NATO. Why? Because Germany was getting killed for possibly causing the breakup of NATO, and Germany didn't want to go there yet. Not true....see above. Schroeder and Chirac wanted GW to be blamed, then they would have been happy, but when Turkey called the special meeting, and Rummy called them out; Schroeder folded. You might be right, that they want a new alliance, without the US, but they also wanted GW to take the fall. They probably will wait for a better opportunity to blame Gw. You still don't see it......in European eyes GW has already taken the fall. The events of the past few weeks are not news to the Europeans......they have been stewing for the past three months at least. Blair was supposed to get them under control but he wasn't able. First, the German makers of the missiles will get paid and won't get screwed over by this political flap with the US. The missiles were Patriots, and I believe the US manufactures them, however, Germany, or NATO in Germany had them. I thought I read they were of German manufacture but could be wrong. Thirdly, it continues to keep its middle finger up so the US doesn't forget where it stands. Agreed. Now is that the civilized thing for them to do. You're right and I don't agree with it but I understand it. Frustration has built up over time and they were ignored. From where I'm sitting, France and Germany are very serious about this breach, and if Blair gets dethroned, the UK will be right behind them. Possible, however, other than the fact that they are liberal, and GW is conservative, why is GW automatically wrong here. He is not automatically wrong.......he wanted their cooperation. Isn't it normal when you want something from someone you treat them nicely? Isn't it possible a lot of the blame falls with them also. Yes, this didn't start in the last six months. Bush and Europe have had a hard time of it from the get go. Because of that, Bush was forced to rely on Blair and Blair didn't come through......he got caught in his own mess in the UK. Just as there is a clash of cultures between the arabs and us, isn't it possible that the US and Europe have different values wit us also. The clash is between Bush and them. There is always some friction between the US and Europe but its more on the level of competitive friends. Bush and Europe are like oil and water. You've pointed out Bush's achilles heel. His/your hubris is what got us into this mess. I wouldn't count on Germany and France being the only countries to get hurt by this flap. You can blame Gw all you want for the differences in cultures. However, that is ignoring the fact that the differences in cultures have been increasing all through the nineties. Mainly I think because Europe has been stagnating ever since the EU started, and they are getting an inferiority complex, which exploded with Iraq. The EU expected big things from the union, however it didn't materialize, so when in a pinch, do what everybody else does, blame America. Its possible your conclusions are correct but that doesn't feel right to me. This is not WW II so stop with the drama. Its only a time of war because Mr. Bush has made it that. Wrong again, it is a time of war because OBL declared war, and a lot of Arab nations support terrorism and or Al qaeda. Saddam has supported terrorists for yrs, mainly the anti Israel groups, but Al qaeda seems to be gaining in influence in Iraq. Again, I don't think that's true......not from the reports I've read. Even Powell is backing away from his original position on this issue. ted