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To: waitwatchwander who wrote (2812)2/25/2003 8:33:23 PM
From: Eric L  Respond to of 9255
 
Trevor,

I'm working on a response to your previous post and as a consequence I have not yet gotten around to beginning to consider a response to this one.

I would like to point out to you however that you have not yet responded to questions I asked you when I originally responded to questions you asked about EDGE and in a previous post I think you said you were going to do that. Off the top of my head I trecall that I asked you what you meant by capacity and I asked you what you meant by fund and I think i may have had 1 or 2 other questions.

Travelling on business but I will be back to you with responses to your 2 most recent posts here.

Best,

- Eric -



To: waitwatchwander who wrote (2812)2/26/2003 11:30:44 AM
From: 49thMIMOMander  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 9255
 
EDGE

- the rf (average,rms) power does not increase, the peak values increase very,very slightly at the basestaion
transmitter (my point was that there is in practice no increase in peaks, only in theory)

- The handset is the one with increased peak values demanding a linear RF power amplifier, just as
CDMA demnds it.

However, note that as EDGE transfers data three times faster, the actual power used per
bit is LOWER than for regular GSM!!!

That is, if one have a GSM/GPRS and a GSM/GPRS/EDGE handset side by side, doing the same amount
of data transfer on both, the EDGE will work longer before the battery is empty. (keeping all other things the same)
-----
that noise..

EDGE clearly demands lower noise or interference frrom other cells, neighboring channels, but when
moving more data, through the same channel this is the law of physics.

However, the point it that the way transmit power is adjusted, channels selcted, has been "improved"
in actual networks over time, cells negotiate much more with their neighbors,etc..

That "dynamic frequency or channel allocation" thing, in addition with "smarter" power control.

For example, if one handset is close to the base station, it will lower its transmit power which means
the interference on that channel in neighboring cells will be minimal.

This even makes it possible to use the same channel (1/1 reuse) in those cells, if that channel
also is allocated to handsets close to their base station.

----
That is, handsets in the cell can be thought of as belonging to different groups

- those very close
- medium range
- "tough" ones, far away, on cell borders, bad multipaths,etc

The idea is "give them as little as possible" in terms of power usage, as well as "pairing" them
to minimize interference for those who need low interference, like the EDGE handsets in the
third group.

That is, the dynamic allocation of channels and power resources is "cleaning up around" those who need
it, and only when they need it.

Additionally few mature GSM networks are built so that they "barely work", that hierarchical thing
of running on (urban) 1800MHz when possible, and switching to 900MHz with larger coverage (additionally
higher transmit power, but less capacity as bandwidth) when needed.
---

Change in voice capacity, to begin with, is a question of comparing "with or without" some data traffic
in the cell. If there is data traffic and that data is moved around more efficiently, it saves capacity
for voice.

However, there is also solutions like voice on an EDGE channel, to use the "additional bits" to do
more channel coding, to make a net result of "working where basic GSM would not work" or
just work on a lower transmit power level, cleaning up the interference for somebody else.
(that basic but difficult thing of "channel coding", Shannon, Viterbi,etc..applied on a more broader
level)

Finally, a transition from 8 timeslots to 16 timeslots is on the way, or alternatively, using only
every second timeslot for one voice channel, while someone else uses the one inbetween.

That is, at that point one already is almost moving voice over "a packet network in the air"

----

All of this is where GSM starts resembling OFDMA more and more, as "basic GSM", on purpose,
was designed as a fairly "rude,simple" but very _robust_ system.
That is, now one introduces more "complexity" but one still have the "old and robust GSM" to fall
back to.

Ilmarinen

btw, one classic but intersting thing with the 8-phase modulation is that it is "staggered" to avoid
180 degree changes, "diving through zero", which is difficult for RF amplifiers, compare to
"zero-crossing distortion" from the HiFi world. (22.5 degree is added to every phaseshift)



To: waitwatchwander who wrote (2812)3/18/2003 3:48:46 PM
From: Eric L  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 9255
 
"EDGE Belongs to GSM in 2003"

Trevor,

The above caption was the subject line of the e-mail just received from 3GAmericas

Their Press Release below contains a mixture of typical press release puffery mixed with some fact, and perhaps you will find it of interest

FWIW, I do not buy the fact (or fiction) that:

EDGE is the most spectrally efficient 3G radio access technology up to 100 Kbps while UMTS offers the best spectral efficiency for data rates higher than 100 Kbps

I do happen to think that properly implemented as it will be by AWS, Cingular, and Rogers (and perhaps to a lesser degree by T-Mobile USA with some older gear), GSM voice with GPRS CS3/CS4 and EDGE data is a lot more spectrally efficient than many people think.

>> GSM Operators and Vendors on Target with Commercialization of EDGE

3GAmericas
Press Release
CTIA Wireless 2003
New Orleans, LA
March 18, 2003

GSM operators and vendors at the EDGE Operators' Forum (EOF) in New Orleans on March 17 provided timely advice regarding the progress of EDGE and its current commercialization to an important audience of rural, regional, and international operators representing the Americas, Asia Pacific, and the Middle East.

Key points presented:

Deployment: EDGE is here and ready for the market. EDGE will be deployed by fourteen operators representing over 84 million subscribers in nine countries throughout the Americas, with the first commercial launches beginning the 2nd half of 2003. A growing number of operators in Asia Pacific, the Middle East, and Europe have been actively evaluating EDGE as a complementary deployment with UMTS. One vendor reports over fifteen trials currently underway.

Market readiness: GSM operators are already seeing the uptake of messaging, a good precursor to high-speed wireless data services. Worldwide, there were an estimated 430 billion mobile messages sent in 2002 with GSM operators accounting for the largest market share.

Spectral Efficiency: EDGE is the most spectrally efficient 3G radio access technology up to 100 Kbps while UMTS offers the best spectral efficiency for data rates higher than 100 Kbps, thus provide a fully complementary network plan. EDGE may be deployed within an operator's existing spectrum and does not require a new 3G license.

Terminals: All EDGE devices will support GSM/GPRS and work on multiple spectrum bands including variations of 800/900/1800/1900 MHz. The cost of including EDGE capabilities within a device is considered negligible and industry consensus is that EDGE will be a standard feature in all new GPRS terminals from the end of 2003. Multiple vendors have already made commercial announcements regarding devices and PC-cards.

Infrastructure: There are hundreds of thousands of EDGE-capable GSM base stations being deployed today, that require relatively simple software and hardware upgrades and thereby provide the lowest total lifetime cost of network ownership for operators. Vendors providing infrastructure include Alcatel, Ericsson, Motorola, Nokia, Nortel Networks, and Siemens.
Cost to upgrade: Practical experience shows that the cost to upgrade to EDGE from GSM/GPRS is about $1-$2 per POP, in addition delivering three times the data capacity.

Global Availability: EDGE will be globally available for operators by 2H 2003 in all primary spectrum bands with commitments in place by terminal and infrastructure vendors.

Chris Pearson, Executive Vice President of 3G Americas, remarked to press and analysts at an EDGE Operators' Forum briefing during CTIA:

"Today, we are showcasing the outstanding progress of EDGE: from AT&T Wireless becoming the first operator to announce deployment of EDGE in 2000, followed by Rogers, Cingular, T-Mobile, Telcel, and another nine operators in the Americas to date; AT&T Wireless completing the first EDGE call with multiple vendors in 2001; the massive amounts of infrastructure shipped by multiple vendors since 2002; operators nearing completion of their EDGE network upgrades; the announcements of commercial EDGE devices by multiple vendors; to the commercial deployments of EDGE expected in the second half of 2003."

Alan Hadden, President of the GSA, commented:

"We have indicated that EDGE is not just an Americas' technology and confirm that EDGE is being deployed on a global basis in all major continents."

"Operators with commitments to EDGE represent about 100 million subscribers. They have the advantages of both the economies of scale with GSM/GPRS and the interoperability of EDGE with UMTS (WCDMA) that will be assured through the standards work of the 3GPP. This translates into a world of 3G services for GSM customers."


In the past year, GSM has become the fastest growing wireless technology in the Americas, registering a 53% growth from year-end 2001 to year-end 2002, according to the EMC World Cellular Database. Latin America has seen numerous new GSM deployments; in Brazil, a total of 1.7 million new subscribers were added from June 2002 to the end of the year with over 69% of customers choosing the GSM technology (23% selected TDMA and 8% choose CDMA).

Worldwide, EMC reports that GSM carriers added some 165 million new subscribers in 2002, over 30 million more than the total number of current CDMA subscribers of about 133 million.

About EDGE Operators' Forum

The EDGE Operators' Forum is a cooperative global industry partnership among the major operators and vendors that have commercially committed to deploy EDGE as part of the GSM evolved solution for 3G service delivery, working in close cooperation with GSA, GSM Association, and 3G Americas. <<

I remain somewhat tardy in responding to your last few posts on EDGE here.

- Eric -