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Politics : PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Johannes Pilch who wrote (364946)	2/28/2003 11:52:55 PM
From: Steve Dietrich	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 769670

<<(sigh) Once again, you ought first to read the history surrounding the Amalekites and the Hebrews before you try this approach.>> Actually i know the story of Amalek pretty well. It's interesting that the story of Amalek's ambush isn't told in Exodus, but only much later in the magically discovered Deuteronomy. And some 500 years after that alleged ambush God was still commanding genocide: 1 Samuel 15 1 Samuel also said unto Saul, The LORD sent me to anoint thee to be king over his people, over Israel: now therefore hearken thou unto the voice of the words of the LORD. 2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. 3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. This is a genocidal blood feud spanning half a millennia, as immoral and heinous as anything can be. And a clear example of the Bible condoning genocide. <<It does not tell us to go out and kill innocent people.>> I'd say genocide against an entire race for what their ancestors did some 500 years before indeed endorses the killing of innocent people. <<But the fact that there is no worldwide movement, based on the scriptures, to kill innocent folks ought to be at least some kind of a clue to you that most folks ain’t so retarded.>> Which brings us back to the Crusades. You're arguing in circles. As for the law of the seven nations Maimonides wrote about, it's based on Deuteronomy 20:17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee: << In other words, most fokes with half a brain who read the Bible clearly see that Maimonides and the Fathers were mere fallible men.>> True enough, but Maimonides' commentary are still the authority for modern Judaism. Which just goes back to my point: The Bible can easily be read to condone genocide, because in fact it is. Steve

To: Johannes Pilch who wrote (364946)	3/1/2003 12:37:38 AM
From: Steve Dietrich	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 769670

<<(sigh) Once again, you ought first to read the history surrounding the Amalekites and the Hebrews before you try this approach. These people had warred against innocent Hebrews for ages. Try reading your verse 19 in context of verse 17. You will see that when the Hebrews were leaving Egypt during the Great Exodus, the Amalekites came up behind the tired group of people and murdered the stragglers. For this they were cursed by God Himself. This was a situation of clear and just retaliation for war.>> Except, of course, the "retaliation" happens 500 years later. But i wanted to expand on something i alluded to in my first response: The ambush and genocide writ isn't mentioned in Exodus. It's in Deuteronomy. Deuteronomy wasn't "discovered" until the time of King Josiah. And Josiah wasn't king until after Saul and after Hezikiah. This means that the ambush and God's extermination order weren't part of the Bible until after the deed was done. This is clearly a case of a back-dated blood libel as a rationalization for some pretty horrendous deeds already committed. Which just goes to show: If you're writing the Bible it's even easier to use it to condone genocide. Steve