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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: michael97123 who wrote (78864)	3/1/2003 10:15:56 PM
From: JohnM	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

If war is coming I will hope the opponents will be constructive and not vindictive. And i hope the supporters of this war will not become so arrogant as to ignore that constructive criticism if in fact it is constructive. Mike In my little corner of the world, there are two factions. Those who discuss the issues a great deal and are critics will be obstructionists. They don't care for this president, consider it his war, will not support it, and many will actively, in the streets, oppose it. The second faction is apolitical; torn by just wanting to get on with their lives; a wish to give authority, any authority, the benefit of the doubt; but not supporters of the war; would prefer it went away; see no serious reason for it; and will cave when the costs come home. I don't know whether they will be in the streets. I doubt it. But they will be caustic critics, not constructive. Bush simply hasn't made the case in a way to create constructive critics. His manichean moral language of either for us or against us rather than trying to persuade will be his undoing. And we'll all be the worse for it. Geez, bleak night. I'm beginning to sound like Michael Cummings' version of me.

To: michael97123 who wrote (78864)	3/2/2003 8:55:30 AM
From: Condor	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Hello mike, I have been enjoying your and John's constructive exchange of thoughts and concerns on future military action. It is a pleasure to see a quiet dignified exchange of feelings. Both positions have merit of course. You have expressed a concern to the effect that we are too far into it to back down without sending out signals of weakness. Those are my words and I hope I have expressed your mind correctly here. As a non American, I would like to suggest that I for one would consider a withdrawal (with an appropriate Presidential statement) a signal of flexible responsibility from a world leader and not a signal of weakness. Having said that, at this juncture, I would not withdraw but stay and keep up the pressure. I would ensure progress is being achieved and ease into a more conciliatory position with historic allies. I would back off on denigration of the UN and consider the damage done to NATO. I think an American reconsideration of the global institutions would be advisable. If the US out and out decides to dispense with the UN, then I honestly think you will see the UN survive , relocate and ultimately become the collective NATO of the world vs. the threat of aggressive domination by the US. In effect, the US will ensure that it becomes perceived as the rogue nation. Bad stuff and not necessary. This needs to be addressed quickly. Much damage is being done to the US role in the world IMO. You stated that " We will see soon enough who is right and who is wrong. If war is coming I will hope the opponents will be constructive and not vindictive. And i hope the supporters of this war will not become so arrogant as to ignore that constructive criticism if in fact it is constructive." I don't believe that we will see who is right and who is wrong soon. The coming Battle will be brief and the US will achieve that no problem of course. The question is "Will they win the War ?". Unfortunately the answer to that is probably a couple of years down the road. Will the battle precipitate the gathering of terrorists under one cause, will global institutions have been undermined so seriously that they collapse, will polarization of nations have evolved, will the US electorate have split into two violent camps, will global economies implode as borders are closed and world trade institutions collapse due to hatred and polarization? Will China and Russia become the de facto global leaders and responsible voice given the new American posture? I think it will be some time before we see the ramifications of this forthcoming incursion. In the meantime I'm afraid the investment world will need to become daytraders as investors will probably be out of vogue for quite some time. I also want to say that I believe North Korea has exploded in violent reaction to an unnecessary US name calling attack that achieved nothing but resulted in the world becoming more dangerous as a result. The aggressive threat of military action in Iraq has made the world a more dangerous place. IMO Present US policy is dangerous and may well collapse all that we have enjoyed in the past. The Norman Rockwell America is dead now. This is a sad situation given that problems addressed as responsible members of a community could have achieved successful results. In hindsight running for the handguns is probably a very poor solution. Thx C