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Politics : DON'T START THE WAR -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: zonder who wrote (15003)	3/3/2003 7:00:36 PM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 25898

I am beginning to despair. You are??!!! Here I am listening to a Middle Eastern woman, if born in most any Arab society, tell me that a government which has the right to repress a woman's right to vote should be counted as equal to one that acknowleges such woman's suffrage... That the Stalins and Hitlers of the world are as legitimate as the Roosevelts and Lincolns.. That totalitarianism is no worse than democracy and should be equally recognized by all as a legitimate government.. Well, they are only "legitimate" from the perspective that one cannot choose one's neighbors, nor Basically, you are trying to say that every government built on premises other than that of the US (i.e. democracy) are illegitimate, and hence the US should have the right to uproot them and put in its own puppets. Yes.. and no... Let me rewrite that so it PROPERLY represents my belief (and in general the belief of the US).. "Basically, you are saying that every government that is illegitimate had better watch its step when threatening democratic societies and their allies/associates. Do what they want internally, but do not offend our interests, nor attempt to expand their empire at our expense. If they do, we will put aside our "civilized demeanor" and they will suffer the same fate they had in store for their victims. And being a US "puppet" with the ability to choose their own government down the road is FAR BETTER than being the puppet of France, Germany, and Russia, who are the primary backers of Saddam. And once again Zonder.. If YOU are willing to bestow the title of "legitimacy" on Saddam's regime, then we assume that the Iraqi people are just as complicit and responsible for both the Kuwait invasion, we well as every failure to comply with the UNSC's resolutions over the past 12 years. Thus, they are not "innocent" victims since their government represents their will. Personally, and call it merely trying to sooth my conscious, but I'd prefer to think of the Iraqi people just as much as victims, and our efforts to oust Saddam their liberation... And it certainly helps to avoid your style of black and white reasoning as to what constitutes governmental legitimacy and to see the shades of political gray that might provide the logic that the Iraqi people want a government which is legitimate in their eyes.. The concept of governmental legitimacy has been important since the founders of the US restored the democratic and republican ideals of the Greeks and Romans. And shortly thereafter, it was evident that the US governmental system was viewed as inherently more legitimate than governments based upon the "divine right of kings". One only has to look at how subversive democracy was to the societies of the time and how it forced positive political and social change throughout the world... It set forth the change that permits you to now sit in the position you currently are.. a independent, financially secure, woman holding major responsibilities over the financial success of your clients... And it changed a system that would have found you probably stuck in someone's harem, married at 14, and stuck with a life slapping unleavened bread on a rock over over an open pit fire. If democracy is not "special" or more legitimate than dictatorships, I can hardly see why so many people are willing to fight and die to create it in their own countries... So for you to just spit on the concept of democratization as having no bearing in what I can only describe as your Machiavellian world, is ridiculous. Sure Machiavelli would state that any ruling authority who is able to dictate his agenda to, or dominate, his opponents and the masses, is a legitimate government. But that's like saying if I kidnapped you, demanded you be my wife, and then consumated that marriage against your will, that we're legitimately married. That others would have to declare that marriage as legitimate and treat us as man and wife and not as kidnapper/rapist and victim.. Legitimate government is a marriage between it representatives and the represented who elect them. I refuse to accept your apparent belief that political kidnapping and rape of a country's citizens cannot be considered illegal anymore than trying to declare actual kidnapping and rape as legitimate. Hawk