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To: TimF who wrote (5851)	3/10/2003 9:55:28 PM
From: Lazarus_Long	Respond to of 7689

You are making my case. And I agree that records from 5,000 years back are too slim to actually allow judgement. But if society has produced such enormous changes in man, how is it that a good rabble rouser can still rile up other men to go and die for their "country"? And I put "country" in quotes because it is simply an arbitrary concept in most ways. A fiction invented by men. An arbitrary parceling of land and population. The land and ecology doesn't suddenly change at the US-Canadian or US-Mexican border. And if those borders were moved a hundred miles north or south, would it make a large difference to "Canadians", "Americans", or "Mexicans"?

To: TimF who wrote (5851)	3/10/2003 10:01:08 PM
From: Solon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 7689

"IMO history gives us no evidence that people where that much different 1000 years ago (the date I picked originally)" That was not your original date. You originally responded to Lazarus who asked the question: "Is man any different now than he was 5,000 or 10,000 years ago? Is he not driven by the same desires, urges, fears, and angers?" You responded to HIM..."Man is no different, or at least not significantly different. But our society has improved. Human nature having not changed the improvements in society and culture have to be maintained. Things can slip back becuase the changes are not changes in fundamental human nature." "I am willing to consider evidence that human character and mental ability has changed a lot within recorded history" Is that what you meant by "human nature"??