To: Neocon who wrote (5984 ) 3/14/2003 1:32:41 PM From: one_less Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 7689 Thank you for posting that. As you can see there is some disagreement among the scholars regarding how much consideration should be given for people who participate in the government, while not being defined as members of the group. Personally, I don't think they have ever gotten it right. If they had, or even if I could, we would be defining a utopian society. I don't want to live under the rule of any of these attempts, I like it right here, even as imperfect as right here is. So, I would not be a good spokesperson for or against the Shari'a definitions of "Islamic State." In general, I do not even make a good member of the religion in the sense of the "Organization." The closest western analogy I can come up with would be an Amish community, or to a lesser extent, a covenant community. In either of these, you afford resident people (like the adult son of a member/property owner) as much rights as any covenant member, with some restrictions on their ability to do things (vote, build a wall, etc.) I cannot deny the validity of the attrocities reported by solon. Certainly there is heinous behavior being perpetrated throughout the world. Some of it is in the name of religion, some in the name of patriotism, some of it just for the sake of power because it is what some people live for: For the Sake of Life... Live and learn for the sake of knowing Live and imagine for the sake of creativity Live and grow for the sake of becoming Live and seek the truth for the sake of truth Live and sing for the sake of a joyful noise Live and create for the sake of inspiration Live and stand for justice for the sake of honor Live and share for the sake of friendliness Live and laugh for the sake of exhileration Live and be charitable for the sake of humility Live and seek understanding for the sake of meaning Life is the purest form of energy, physically undetectable in its finest condition, neither created nor destroyed. The essence of life persists in eternity, as the states of termporal existence transform in their ever illusive comings and goings...and beings. After all; What will you really have when everything is said and done? You will have to live with everything you've said and done, or not said and done...until the end of counting and beyond. I am an individual not a government or an organized religion. I am a believer in eternity and the characteristics that exemplify the ideals of an eternal existence. There is no more point in debating Islam with solon than debating Judaism with Emile. There is definitely constructive purpose in identifying heinously unjust acts perpetrated by individuals or organizations of individuals and standing against it. When non-muslims attempt to interpret the religion behind this stuff it creates more problems than it solves. Spewing hate about the moral foundations of any culture will never accomplish anything good.