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To: Cary Salsberg who wrote (68817)	3/18/2003 10:48:15 AM
From: thames_sider	Respond to of 70976

Who rejected Jesus as Messiah and Lord and still does? Who betrayed Jesus? Who crucified Jesus? 1. Everyone who isn't Xtian... that's me for one. 2. Depends which gospel you read... presumably, one of his followers, otherwise it isn't betrayal. 3. The Romans. BTW, what religion was Jesus? <g>

To: Cary Salsberg who wrote (68817)	3/18/2003 11:27:23 AM
From: zonder	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 70976

Whose religion was "improved upon" by Jesus? Who betrayed Jesus? Who crucified Jesus? Going with that logic, you must believe that hatred of Christians and Jews is fundamental to Islam. Contrary to what mainstream US media might be telling you nowadays, I assure you this is VERY far from the truth. She mentioned that in the third grade a fellow classmate said to her, "You killed Jesus!" She replied, "I didn't even know him!" I was in first grade when I innocently declared that not only did I not believe in God but I also could not see how others did. I was different, so half the kids in the school didn't talk to me for about a year, until they forgot why they were not talking to me :-) And so? Kids' minds cannot deal with such subjects, and so their ideas on religion are simple, rigid, and harsh. I hope you have more adult examples of how anti-Semitism is fundamental to Christianity - Does Jesus say to hate Jews? Do devout Christians everywhere hate Jews because this hatred is fundamental to their faith? Now, the precocious accuser is a professor of law at the University of Kentucky, but I am surprised that you don't have the insight that she had at a very early age. She was obviously a different child than I was at that age. My understanding was that you were especially concerned about anti-Semitism of European Christians. I have been living in Europe for several years, in predominantly Christian environments, with Jewish minorities. I never heard anti-Semite comments in Christian communities. I never heard Jewish people say Christians were all anti-Semites. This is why I am surprised at your assessment of anti-Semitism being "fundamental to Christianity". I did hear some ear-blistering comments on non-Jews in synagogues, though. (Fred would agree) I have a lot of Jewish friends, one of whom is visiting this week, and much as I love them individually, I must say that their contempt for non-Jews when in groups is rather strange.

To: Cary Salsberg who wrote (68817)	3/18/2003 11:37:05 AM
From: Sun Tzu	Respond to of 70976

Early Christianity was considerably more concerned with Mithraism than anything else. Mithraism was wining the hearts and minds of the aristocrats. Being rooted in Persian empire, Mithraism was a great threat to Constantine's domain. The decision to make Christianity the "official" religion was an astute political maneuver. On one hand it put a stop to Persia's influence among the upper class. On the other it made the emperor dear among the lower class. However, as a compromise, so much of Mithraism was incorporated into Christianity that in effect Christianity became an off-shoot of Mithraism. I know that today we think of Christianity as perhaps an off-shoot of Judaism. But at the time the Jews were not important enough to be included in creation of the official state religion. I would wager that Constantine's Sword suffers from survival bias; it looks at the past through what has survived to be important to us today but ignores what was important at the time but is no longer a concern. Sun Tzu ...this is just as sample of the mind set at the time, though Mithraism is not mentioned here. Emperor Constantine was not himself a Christian. Despite this, he had recently made Christianity the official state religion of the Roman empire. This made heresy akin to revolt, so Constantine exiled the excommunicated Arius to Illyria...