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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: JohnM who wrote (84140)	3/20/2003 10:31:24 AM
From: slacker711	Read Replies (4) \| Respond to of 281500

Terrible, just terrible, foreign policy advice. The French and the Germans are our allies with which we have a serious policy disagreement but with which we have profound agreements on a host of other issues. To reify the Iraq disagreements into basic premises of foreign policy is only to make a bad moment much worse. It would be terrible foreign policy if they applied payback across the board, but I doubt that will be the case. Germany's pacifism, Canada's moderation, Mexico's hesitance etc.....are all understandable, it is France's over the top work against the US that is truly objectionable. Do you really believe that the totality of their actions was based on a principaled stand? Perhaps a part, but much of it was power politics....and for that, some price must be paid. Nadine said it much better than I could.... that whatever calculus enabled the French to believe they could set themselves up to thwart and obstruct actions that we believed were essential for our national security without paying any price - well, that calculus has got to go. Slacker

To: JohnM who wrote (84140)	3/20/2003 10:54:08 AM
From: carranza2	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

To reify the Iraq disagreements into basic premises of foreign policy is only to make a bad moment much worse. Like the French, you miscalculate the importance of Iraq to our national security. Even if it were Bush who has in fact miscalculated the importance of Iraq to our secuirty, France failed to acknowledge that such a miscalculation was reasonable and to act accordingly. Instead, it acted precipitously and aggressively. It must now be prepared to suffer the consequences.

To: JohnM who wrote (84140)	3/21/2003 11:38:54 AM
From: Nadine Carroll	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

The French and the Germans are our allies with which we have a serious policy disagreement but with which we have profound agreements on a host of other issues. To reify the Iraq disagreements into basic premises of foreign policy is only to make a bad moment much worse. Please describe the profound agreements with have with France (let's not discuss Germany, which is its own case). I think you are working on leftover Cold War assumptions. Major areas as I see them EU: France is trying to set this up as French-led rival to the US. The US wants it to be a trading bloc. Different goals. NATO: No purpose anymore. France just uses it to make mischief. Look for the US to set up other alliances and let NATO wither - unless Europe is threatened by a new external enemy. Markets and Trade: The EU and the US have completely different philosophies and goals. The US is pushing capitalism and pretty free markets; the EU is pushing regulation and a new socialism. Foreign Policy: France has acted as an enemy vis-a-vis Iraq. In the Mideast, France pursues an active policy of appeasement towards the Arabs, contrary to US goals. In Africa, France alternately appeases dictators and acts as a colonial power, again contrary to US interests. War on Terror: Here there may some shared goals as France also has an interest in thwarting attacks. This is a matter of police and intelligence cooperation. Five areas, only one area of shared goals, four of rivalry extending to outright emnity. I would say that France is no longer an ally of the US.