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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: alan w who wrote (34769)	3/28/2003 3:41:43 PM
From: Berry Picker	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

"Natural" branches are Jews according to the flesh "Grafted" are the gentiles who come from non-elect nations. They are however all from the same "LUMP OF CLAY" There is no inherent difference in the "stuff" of man They are all sinners who need to be saved but only the "Elect" according to the Grace of God get saved. The rest go to hell - the condition is not temporary. You force that into the meaning. The natural reflects the truth of the eternal. The natural is not opposite to the eternal. God uses the here and now as a "pattern" of the hereafter.

To: alan w who wrote (34769)	3/28/2003 3:52:46 PM
From: Berry Picker	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 39621

Romans 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) Nots of works - is not speaking about an earthly and temporary condition that will be rectified with your very pleasant but untrue Universalist concepts. This is NO DODGE... Jacob and Esau were Paul's classic example. Paul is not teaching about temporal things. They were TWINS They were both SONS OF ABRAHAM NEITHER ONE had not done anything good or evil ( nor forseen deeds as some force into the verse) They were a classic example of being from the SAME LUMP OF CLAY Yet God chose to LOVE ONE and HATE the other before they were ever born. 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. That is not a "temporary pronouncement" God hated Esau - Esau was left to his wickedness Hebrews 12:16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. That birthright is being reflected into the eternal state. Esau went to Hell.