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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Jacob Snyder who wrote (91083)	4/8/2003 1:32:10 AM
From: paul_philp	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 281500

The NeoCons think the Arabs will respond to this, with submission. Jacob, You don't have the first clue what the neocons think. You don't understand them at all. Your statements about neocon objectives and attitudes and strategies are almost always complete fabrications. I don't mind if you want to think that way about the neocons but I want it on the record that you are nowhere near accurate in your pronouncements. The grand neocon strategy is to provide the people of the middle east with a new possible future, a realistic and ground expectation that life will get better for them and thier families. They understand that this is tightly linked to US national security and economic prosperty more fully than any other group of thinkers on this issue. Paul

To: Jacob Snyder who wrote (91083)	4/8/2003 1:42:05 AM
From: Sun Tzu	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

I've been talking with some people in Arab countries. It seems that those outside of Iraq are highly against this. So if there is any AQ recruiting going to happen, that is where it will be. As for the Iraqis, they are happy to see Saddam gone, but from everything I have heard, nobody is happy that the Americans are there. My guess is that there will be a 3 months to a year period that the population may stay calm. After that it depends very much on how the power is being shared. Also, if the Baath party members are prosecuted Nuremberg style, it may actually keep the public calm for a while. To guarantee good government, Machiaveli proposed the army should be made up of the local people because a government that was too corrupt to meet the people's needs would have no effective army and would soon be overthrown. I think Saddam failed to read Niccolo's book <g>. ST

To: Jacob Snyder who wrote (91083)	4/8/2003 4:46:36 AM
From: unclewest	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

We are seeing the end of wars between nation-states..... We have also seen the end of the concept of "battleground"... Wow! Is that right? Attacks are made, not mainly on the opponent's organized fighting forces (hard targets), but on your opponent's logistics/command/war-supporting ability (soft targets). Leave it to us to come up with such a novel approach to military victory....But psssst, don't tell the Iraqi republican guard that.

To: Jacob Snyder who wrote (91083)	4/8/2003 7:00:54 AM
From: quehubo	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 281500

<<If the Iraqis put up as little resistance as we've seen so far, then this is going to end up being as big a humiliation for the Arabs, as their defeat in 1967 by Israel. And these are people for whom humiliation is, literally, worse than death>> So how were we supposed to win the war and be sensitive to the expectations of the Arab street? It seems they would only have been happy if more of our troops were killed along with more carnage in Bagdad. It seems when we perform poorly as in Mogadishu we motivate them and when we perform superbly we motivate them. Let the newly motivated come running to Iraq to support Saddam. If the Marines dont send them to Allah the liberated Iraqi's will soon be in a position to do so.

To: Jacob Snyder who wrote (91083)	4/8/2003 11:45:25 AM
From: Dennis O'Bell	Respond to of 281500

If the Iraqis put up as little resistance as we've seen so far, then this is going to end up being as big a humiliation for the Arabs, as their defeat in 1967 by Israel. And these are people for whom humiliation is, literally, worse than death. This is why I am absolutely opposed to any thinking of "rubbing it in", and think Powell's recent remarks about letting Syria in on any rebuilding are not stupid at all. The role that this humiliation plays is very evident from some of the remarks I've heard from Arab intellectuals since the start of the war. Some of the things have been so nonsensical, and coming from people I've heard in the past who have held very lucid discourse on subjects about their region of the world only solidifies my opinion of the problem this removal of Saddam by force poses for them. There is simply no excuse to foul up this time around. We are no longer fighting a proxy war against the menace of Communism, with it's machiavellian tradeoffs. Of course, I have no real clue as to what delusions of grandeur may be held by the planners of the invasion, and the fighting isn't exactly over quite yet, so what do I know.....