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Politics : Canadian Political Free-for-All -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: SofaSpud who wrote (2382)	4/9/2003 8:16:26 PM
From: Cogito Ergo Sum	Respond to of 37065

Hi sofa, Ya, some of Steve’s rhetoric lately It wasn't his support that bothered me but his tone appeared sycophantic to me, then again I'm not a Harper fan although I've supported Alliance last two federal elections. While Daliwhal could have been more diplomatic as could Cellucci ;o) to the Americans <g> That we can be better than we are, that it’s a crime that we’re pissing away our advantages, and that it’s unproductive to envy the Americans. Hell, get stupid laws and regulations out of the way, and we’ll take the buggers on and do just fine, thank you. We likely agree on almost all of that. As to Chrétien... While I support his final stand re: UN blah blah.. the more I think about it in my simplistic way I become uncomfortable thinking it might have been at worst an ego issue or at best a huge miscalculation. I wonder how sure JC was that the timely Canadians would be able to facilitate an security council agreement so the UN would take action thereby absolving us of blatantly supporting the US in an Iraq war. Plays well into the Québec angle I read around here somewheres. Of course Chirac (another JC LOL) screwed that up. Is there no solution to that veto issue in the UN ??

To: SofaSpud who wrote (2382)	4/13/2003 5:06:10 PM
From: marcos	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 37065

A thoughtful post Sofa, i actually composed quite a reply while driving the next day, lost it by now of course, no keyboard in the pickup ... as usual you try to avoid the far-too-common trap of Binary Absolutism, the reduction of all issues down to two neat little boxes into which all participants must be divided .... e.g. the neocon taunt of yer with us or yer agin us, either you cheer our tanks wherever we choose to roll them or you are supporting The Evil Bastards Du Jour As Per Our Determination Of Them It's never like that really ... let's say there are six billions of us, well that will mean that on any given day there are six point four billions opinions and viewpoints, something like that, allowing for the schizophrenics to express all of theirs .... never just two tidy simple little boxes We detest the current US admin around here, for obvious reason, what they've been doing to us since summer 2001 with this one-way 'free trade' bullshit, under which millions worth of goods come north over the border every hour without tariff, but what we produce gets penalised out of the market ..... the lies out of DC, the hypocrisy, the corruption of the place, no we're not in favour of that bunch at all This does not mean we are in favour of the bin Ladens, Sharons, Husseins, etc ... how stupid of the spin-meisters to suggest so, only massive ignorance on the part of general populace permits them to get away with this reduction to binary absolutes .... real life is simply not like this, it is entirely human and the most intelligent course imho to hate quite equally the Ragostas and the Husseins, as the evil they spread varies only according to the relative opportunities presented them On this point you are mistaken - '... the view you’ve expressed on this thread in many posts, that the U.S. was clearly WRONG to invade Iraq, is not what Harper thinks.' ..... never have i said anybody was wrong to invade Iraq, what i said was that no one should UNILATERALLY invade any sovereign nation ..... the great sin of current US admin in this case was the damage they did to international relations in the way they blew us all off in the making of the decision, it's exactly the pattern of what they're doing to our forestry, it's pure rule by Diktat, another expression of what seems to be innate arrogance If the neocons genuinely wanted to improve this world they would be working toward international cooperation, not away from it ..... granted the french are not a great help, but there are many more of us out here ..... had there been an honest respect for the rest of us, i would have favoured canadian participation in a show of force in Iraq, and i really think that was the better course, since with a majority of democracies truly onside and parked outside the front door with troops there would arguably have been much less resistance to the occupation [although as it turned out there hasn't been much anyway] ..... but what Harper must come to understand, is that we are simply not going to kneel to Washington, the more he does the more he will be on his own As for those comments, Dhaliwal's was quite understandable since he's involved with the softwood lumber issue and thoroughly familiar with their attitude on it, Ducros' was off the record and only the perfidy of a reporter without honour got it publicised, and with that of Parrish i'm not familiar, didn't hear of that one ..... no comments i've heard have been unreasonable or unjustified, in fact they've all been exceedingly moderate given the current hostility we've been facing Respect and friendship is a two-way street, we'll give back what we get, when we get it, that's human nature, and even living smack up beside the eight thousands pound gorilla we have a right to be human .... we'll know when comes a genuine interest in alliance from rulers of the US, we'll see them stop shaking the fist at us, meantime we just wait for November '04 to see how long the current situation will last, and a lot of us would like to see Harper grow some spine in the interim