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Politics : Moderate Forum -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Dale Baker who wrote (142)	4/13/2003 6:58:39 AM
From: Dale Baker	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 20773

Several snippets from here and there (SI and the media) worth reposting: "Grow up. Maybe in your rush to be such a "support our administration, shout down the opposition and support our troops" American you should take heed of the words spoken by Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials: "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." --------------------------------------------------------- From NYT interview with various ordinary citizens: "We have definitely sent a John Wayne message to the world," he said. "How can anyone not see that we have sent a message straight out of the American West? We're the good guys. We're the big guns in town. We'll tell you how it is going to be. But do we have the ability to build relationships?" ----------------------------------------------------------- From another SI thread: If it's actually about using American military power to guarantee our economic supremacy and our way of life, that's a course that history says is doomed to failure. The will, resources and intellect of the other people and nations of the world will not allow an aggressive power to remain unchallenged for long. In the end the damage we are now doing to a fledgling world organization and to a tenuous but growing body of international law, is disastrous. The notion that the exercise of unilateral power will lead, in the long run, to a better world for our children ignores not only the effectiveness of terrorist methods, but also the gathering alliances and armaments of other powerful countries (China??) that will not sit idly by while we impose our will on them. I believe we will one day look at the opportunity we had to maintain our status as a benevolent, trusted, one-superpower nation and rue the day we squandered it and created a fearful, more violent, more weaponized world. The war in Iraq was not about terrorists and will ultimately be more likely to increase acts of terrorism than to decrease them. It clearly wasn't about liberating the Iraqi people although that may be a great collateral benefit. I believe you are correct in stating that it is about protecting economic interests that we consider vital. In days past that was called imperialism and in today's world I wonder if a successful imperialistic adventure is possible. Ed

To: Dale Baker who wrote (142)	4/13/2003 9:03:18 AM
From: Glenn Petersen	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 20773

A classic statement by a true enemy of the US Constitution. It certainly would be a classic if DeLay had actually made the statement. The statement that AS posted is so over the top that I suspect that it was originally meant to be satirical. AS has chosen not to provide a link. I am no fan of DeLay, but I can find no evidence that he actually uttered those words. There is no question that he is an overlay political animal, as evidenced by his press releases: majorityleader.gov

To: Dale Baker who wrote (142)	4/13/2003 12:02:37 PM
From: American Spirit	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 20773

right-wingers on thiese threads are actually admitting they want to put anyone against Bush in jail as atraitors, and to conquer the world with enedless Bush wars. Wake up people, if the right-wing gets any more power. We moderates cannot be sheep. Kerry-Edwards (probably the ticket) in 2004!

To: Dale Baker who wrote (142)	4/13/2003 3:50:49 PM
From: Poet	Respond to of 20773

Wow. Where did you get that incredibly naive and frightening statement about "true patriotism" involving submission to our leaders, Dale? Hopefully not from SI, though I wouldn't be surprised.