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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Jacob Snyder who wrote (95068)	4/21/2003 4:32:50 PM
From: TimF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

This attitude, the Kissinger Machiavellian Foreign policy, means the U.S. doesn't stand for anything. I'm not for such "realism" as the main theme in our foreign, policy but it is an important consideration. Just like we supported Stalin against Hitler, sometimes the best thing to do is to support one thug against a more dangerous thug. I think we have done this too often, and in places where it shouldn't have been done, but I don't think that the idea should be completely abandoned. The reasons oil looks cheap, is because much of the cost has been externalized. Garrisoning the oil fields is a cost of reliance on imported oil. If we relied 100% of domestic energy sources, we would not have had to fight the two wars against Iraq, or the war on Afghanistan, and 9/11 would not have happened. The total cost for all that, plus all the domestic security expenses, runs into the 100s of billions. And even including that oil is the cheapest energy source when you spread that cost among all the oil we have consumed over several decades at least in purely dollar terms (other terms are harder to compare and involve controversial subjective judgements) We have the leverage to do anything we want. Israel is totally isolated, has no friends anywhere, except for us. They rely on us, militarily, politically, economically. We give them all their weapons, all their technology, billions in aid every year. We choose not to use the power we have, to fix the endless bloodshed in the Palestine and Israel. They depend heavily on us but not absolutely on us. Israel would not dry up and blow away if we stopped supporting them, nor would the Palestinians be able to defeat Israel. Israel can't end the bloodshed unilaterally and wouldn't try to. We could force Israel to take constructive steps like halting settlement building but if we start putting massive pressure on Israel to get what the Palestinian want then they are likely to see the possibility to get even more. If they get something not by giving something in trade but rather by having the US impose what the Palestinians want, even as the Palestinians continue their terror campaign it will not bring the conflict closer to a peaceful resolution. If the Palestinians where acting like Ghandi and the Israelis where the only ones using violence then maybe straightforward, simple US pressure could quickly bring peace. But that simply isn't reality. Tim

To: Jacob Snyder who wrote (95068)	4/21/2003 7:36:56 PM
From: KLP	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Do you have some proven reasons for your opinions here, or links? Including how you arrived at the " hundreds of billions of dollars" .... Also, could you expand on how and what you mean "if we relied 100% of domestic energy sources...." Exactly what would you think would that entail...? These people have been fighting and killing each other for over 2,000+ years...It seems very much like watching a movie of that time, with many of the same reasons for conflict. Except, the "movie" is real life today. Do things ever change? The reasons oil looks cheap, is because much of the cost has been externalized. Garrisoning the oil fields is a cost of reliance on imported oil. If we relied 100% of domestic energy sources, we would not have had to fight the two wars against Iraq, or the war on Afghanistan, and 9/11 would not have happened. The total cost for all that, plus all the domestic security expenses, runs into the 100s of billions.