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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Sun Tzu who wrote (95315)	4/21/2003 1:31:06 AM
From: Nadine Carroll	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 281500

It just goes to show how little you know what you are dealing with. When US started attacking Afghanistan, thousands of Pakistanis jumped in the air in joy knowing that they will get to fight a "holy" war and welcoming the chance to be a martyr. You should really try to spend some time listening to the other side before coming to conclusions. Maybe it's just me, but I suspect that the survivors are now somewhat disillusioned about the jihad business.

To: Sun Tzu who wrote (95315)	4/21/2003 5:53:10 AM
From: unclewest	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

It just goes to show how little you know what you are dealing with. When US started attacking Afghanistan, thousands of Pakistanis jumped in the air in joy knowing that they will get to fight a "holy" war and welcoming the chance to be a martyr. I agree. Your explanation underscores a favorite theme of mine. The ME is not going to run out of suicide bombers any time soon. Our current military activities are not going to solve that problem. Even a couple of more attacks against our homeland (A scenario I consider likely.) May not be enough to wake up most. Most Americans are locked into a thought process that tells them they do not have to take action. The government will solve the problem. More and more former ME dwellers have been schooled in Western Universities. They are learning to appreciate the amenities of democracy. They appreciate freedom of speech to a small degree...They do like freedom of religion and freedom of choice in other areas such as school opportunities for their children, job opportunities, and freedom of travel. They also like not registering with the police. Will they go back and teach that is a big question. I do not know how we can provide all of this in Baghdad or Kabul quickly. Heck I am not convinced we have provided it to every US citizen yet. I do believe in using our armed forces to reduce significant threats. I do not believe our armed forces can solve the suicide bomber problem in 100 years. That is going to require a social and political viewpoint change both here and abroad...and frankly I do not see it happening anytime soon. That leaves us in unresolved conflict with others. War has been part of our American political fabric since before 1776. We justify it as the continuing fight for our freedom. War has been part of Christianity since Caine and Able. I am not thrown off by the Beatitudes. There are plenty of biblical references that describe to Christians when war is acceptable, appropriate and called for. We Americans do not understand >>>thousands of Pakistanis jumped in the air in joy knowing that they will get to fight a "holy" war and welcoming the chance to be a martyr<<<. Some have the attitude, bring them on. We will kill them all. But we cannot kill them all. They are never going to run out of suicide bombers. We may never be willing to affect the changes that really have to be made by us. We may never be willing to assist them in making the changes they really need to make. Unconditional surrender sounds good for current military morale. It may prove a military victory was obtained. But it is not a long term solution. Heck look at us. We are going to great pains to show our soldiers are not in charge. We are just there to help. It is a charade that everyone on both sided sees through. We are IMO all focused on the wrong points including NGOs, Churches, military victories, the Koran, the Bible, and the UN. The solution IMHO does not lie anywhere there. Everyone is focused on freedom at the highest level...Who will be the leader? Will he be chosen or elected? etc. The real solution is to create an independent economically viable work solution for each Iraqi and Afghani family and a school opportunity for each Iraqi and Afghani child. Freedom begins at the lowest level. It is enjoyed not imposed. People are free when they expect it, demand it and work for it. The ME is not even close to being there and the wars have not changed that. Continued conflict is inevitable. Some of it will be there and some of it will be here. unclewest