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Pastimes : History's effect on Religion -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Sun Tzu who wrote (11)	4/30/2003 9:39:39 PM
From: Brumar89	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 520

I need to do some thinking before I reply, so it might be tomorrow night before I get back to you. Is the source for all the similarites listed below the TV documentary or is there another source? And is the comparison to Mithraism or to the Parsees? Or are you saying Parsees come from Mithraism and they are essentially the same thing? I saw this in a TV documentary and am not sure if I can find a reference on the net. But the gist of it was that when British missionaries went to India, they met Parsis (who are the direct extension of Mithraists). After studying them and trying to convert them, the missionary concluded that they were Christian in all but name. Consider these similarities: - Belief in being born again. "Spirit of Spirit, if it be your will, give me over to immortal birth so that I may be born again - and the sacred spirit may breathe in me." -- Prayer to Mithraism - Heaven and Hell (note, Romans did not believe in Heaven; everyone went to Hell) All the wicked, the rejected and unapprised would be destroyed by Mithra by fire, and those accepted into Paradise would live with Mithra forever with eternal life. - and later Purgatory - Belief in the Judgment Day: The faithful to the Mithra believed they would live in bliss after death until the Judgment of mankind. Mithra would then unlock Paradise for the faithful and come to Earth and kill all the unapprised. All the dead would return from their graves to be judged. - The persona of Mary is almost identical to that of Anahita - Baptism - Virgin Birth - taking the wine and the bread at mass - The calendar (before the changes by decree. October means the 8th month and not the 10th) - Using songs and hymns as a method of prayer - Sunday as the Sabbath (the day of honoring the Sun god) - December 25th was declared the birthday of Mithra

To: Sun Tzu who wrote (11)	5/3/2003 1:07:09 AM
From: Brumar89	Respond to of 520

When you have an almighty emperor who has the title of "High Priest" [of Mithra?] presiding over the council to decide what is and is not Christianity. And when there is so very little of Christian scripts left to negated him, I find it very likely that he would incorporate as much of Mithraism in as he liked. My earlier post addressed the "very little of Christian scripts left to negate him" issue and showed that all of the NT pre-dated Constantine by considerable time. > Was Anahita Mithra's mother or consort? Quite possibly both. Certainly she had the title " Immaculate Virgin Mother of the Lord Mithras, "possibly both" - well that shows what I was talking about. Mithraism's beliefs are hard to discern. There's no mystery about Mary though, in that she was Jesus's mother. And she was not a goddess but a normal human being. BTW, here's a link which shows Mithra emerging from a rock - figure 2: farvardyn.com Presumably it was a virgin rock. Don't know the rock's name. > I just can't see anything in Christianity except superficial things like the timing of Christmas as being related to Mithraism. I am afraid you are contradicted here by Christian missionaries. I saw this in a TV documentary and am not sure if I can find a reference on the net. But the gist of it was that when British missionaries went to India, they met Parsis (who are the direct extension of Mithraists). After studying them and trying to convert them, the missionary concluded that they were Christian in all but name. Sorry, I think they are mistaken if they are saying Christianity and Parseeism are the same religion. Consider these similarities: - Belief in being born again. "Spirit of Spirit, if it be your will, give me over to immortal birth so that I may be born again - and the sacred spirit may breathe in me." -- Prayer to Mithraism - Heaven and Hell (note, Romans did not believe in Heaven; everyone went to Hell) All the wicked, the rejected and unapprised would be destroyed by Mithra by fire, and those accepted into Paradise would live with Mithra forever with eternal life. - and later Purgatory - Belief in the Judgment Day: The faithful to the Mithra believed they would live in bliss after death until the Judgment of mankind. Mithra would then unlock Paradise for the faithful and come to Earth and kill all the unapprised. All the dead would return from their graves to be judged. The spiritual rebirth doesn't impress me as a similarity but the heaven-hell, judgment day matters are possible influences of Zoroastrianism on Judaism prior to the rise of Christianity. - The persona of Mary is almost identical to that of Anahita Except that Mary isn't a divine being. That Anahita may be Mithra's consort. - Baptism Came from Judaism. Required for converts to Judaism even today I believe. - Virgin Birth Attributed to holy figures in many religions, not just these two. - taking the wine and the bread at mass Most ceremonial meals in the eastern Med. area involved breaking bread and drinking wine, including even Passover. - The calendar (before the changes by decree. October means the 8th month and not the 10th) - Using songs and hymns as a method of prayer Songs, hymns, chants are found in most religions, maybe most. See the Psalms for an example. Don't really understand the calendar comment. - Sunday as the Sabbath (the day of honoring the Sun god) - December 25th was declared the birthday of Mithra Ok, won't argue with this. .