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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: NightOwl who wrote (97217)	5/2/2003 9:45:37 PM
From: Jacob Snyder	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 281500

<the "Darwin Made Me Do It Society."> We are steadily, inexorably, moving toward a world where everyone has WMD. And I don't mean like anthrax in the mail, that's a small-scale terror weapon, nothing "mass" about it. And by "everyone", I don't just mean every single one of the 200+ nation-states. I mean every NGO, every interest group, every disgruntled minority, the local PTA if they want it, the neighbors down the street, everyone. Your grandchildren will live in that world. And they will either be committed pacifists, or you won't have any surviving grandchildren. Those are the only two possible futures. Your grandchildren will be pacifists, committed to peaceful interactions in all personal, group, national and international settings. They will not do this out of idealism, or because they are angels, or live in a community of angels. They will eventually abandon their selfish short-term Realistic Social Darwinism, and come to see that thinking (and the actions that flow from it) as barbarism, much like today we see the Inquisition or the Crusades. They will Change Everything, because those who don't, will die. You have to become a Ghandi, when each of the 6-10 billion of us have access to nuclear weapons, the way Americans have access to handguns today. The other choice is to be tossed on the ash-heap of history.

To: NightOwl who wrote (97217)	5/4/2003 12:08:37 AM
From: Dayuhan	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Suffice to say that whatever we do… it will most definitely be done with our interests at the forefront. Moreover, I am now completely at a loss as to why anyone would think that we should, or even want us to, do otherwise. I think you might find an Iraqi or two who might be slightly uncomfortable with the notion that everything we will do in Iraq will be done to further our own interests. Their perception of their interests is not likely to be completely aligned with our perception of our interests. The question remains: if it becomes clear, as it probably will, that a democratically elected government in Iraq will pursue policies not in accordance with our interests, which should we prioritize: our own interests or our commitment to democracy. Sooner or later the last of us will "die" off. Until then, barring the arrival of ALIEN beasts, I see scant prospects for any one of our "groups" gaining universal adoption, integration or even acceptance… all evidence of record that I have ever seen, suggests that life itself is inconsistent with the idea of "putting the interests of others first." Within America we see many groups with extremely divergent interests and concerns living in relative harmony. The atheists and the born agains don’t much like each other, but they don’t generally kill each other. In many parts of the world nations with histories of conflict are trading together and dealing with each other without open hostility. These things happen for a reason. They happen because members of groups acknowledge that maintaining overall peace and relative harmony is more important than the interests of any one group, even if that sometimes means that groups must accept decisions that run counter to their interests. It’s less a matter of putting our interests above those of others than of comparing long-term interests to short-term interests. The long-term desire to keep peace and to create a system where the interests of all are considered equally is often more important than getting one’s way at any particular moment. If these things can within a diverse nation, they can happen within a diverse world, if enough people are willing to work to make them happen. That doesn’t mean they will happen, but I believe that they can. Now wasn’t I the one you were calling a congenital pessimist?