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Politics : Dutch Central Bank Sale Announcement Imminent? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: sea_urchin who wrote (18242)	5/8/2003 12:17:34 PM
From: sea_urchin	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 81411

And from the same studio that brought us the world famous hit, Arise Osama, we now present its sequel --- Baby, it's me again. by that world-famous crooner and escape-artist --- Saddam Hussain. news.independent.co.uk smh.com.au This bit caught my eye.. >>>...genuine people would never care about the western media, because it is controlled by Zionists. Especially the two administrations in Washington and London, which are controlled by the Zioinist media. <<< I suppose it's no coincidence that Rupert Murdoch, besides owning Fox News and Tony Blair, also owns the Sydney Morning Herald. But I didn't know he was Jewish. Maybe he converted. Ouch! Ooooooooooooooo!

To: sea_urchin who wrote (18242)	5/8/2003 1:53:24 PM
From: philv	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 81411

The US in decline. Certainly in terms of decency and democracy. My impression is a growing corruption of once noble ideas and goals. This rot starts with the government, and extends through corporations right down to the individual. Honesty takes a back seat to the "spin". Democracy is compromised by special interest groups and a compliant uncritical media. Democracy is good, unless of course the electorate itself is on the other side of the issue. Then democracy must be set aside, or the issue spun in such a manner as to gain acceptance. Take for example the hatred towards French President Chirac. Never mind that the vast majority of Frenchmen supported his position. The US would have much favoured a dictator, as long as he supported the US. Democracy, freedom of expression, is fine as long as the dumb electorate makes the right choice! The UN and its various commissions etc. are all good, provided they don't clash with the US vital interest. Here again, for example, the commission set up to prosecute war criminals in the Hague are doing a great job, prosecuting the likes of Milosevic. However, their authority ends when it comes to the United States, who have exempted themselves and their soldiers from ever having to appear before this body. Hypocrisy all around. Business is not much better with the CEOs demanding sacrifice from their employees while fleecing their company. Everything has a spin, and more and more I get the impression that I am being conned or controlled. I hope I don't sound paranoid, actually I am a bit saddened by how democratic institutions can be bent and used against the people. The power groups are in control....the lawyers, bankers and media. Moral standards have been legislated out of existence, slowly over time. Complaining is useless, besides, these things take second place to the standard of living, the almighty buck. A perfect system can be corrupted over time, and democracy has certainly evolved. Makes me wonder where it will all end. Phil

To: sea_urchin who wrote (18242)	5/11/2003 8:53:52 AM
From: mcg404	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 81411

Searle: <And pretty soon it will be something else. The question is what?> There is a lot to choose from: phrontistery.50megs.com But this guy thinks he's got it figured out (but who is going to believe a guy named Polybius?). <In Book VI of his Histories (6.4.6-11; cf. 6.3.5), the ancient Greek historian Polybius outlines three simple forms of constitution--each categorized according to the number of its ruling body: monarchy (rule by the one), aristocracy (rule by the few), and democracy (rule by the many). According to the historian, these three simple constitutions each degenerate, over time, into their respective corrupt forms (tyranny, oligarchy, and mob-rule) by a cycle of gradual decline which he calls anacyclosis or “political revolution” ... The catalyst for the decay in each simple form, Polybius says (6.7.7), is hereditary succession--the automatic handing down of the privileges of a particular form of government to future generations without their ever having to internalize for themselves the discipline necessary to maintain those privileges. Each of the three simple forms of constitution serves well enough at its inception, since founder kings arise out of their very excellence of character, aristocracies (by definition at least) form from the noblest of society, and democracies too embrace the highest ideals at the outset. The problem lies not with the initial impetus that forms these governments but with the fact that they each suffer entropy, or internal decay. Polybius explains his theory in fuller detail, describing the mechanism by which hereditary succession weakens the state. When the crown is inherited generation upon generation, kings are no longer then chosen by excellence of leadership but by accident of birth. When monarchs are born to privilege, they no longer have any incentive to serve the state (since their privileges are no longer tied to their performance as leaders). They eventually expend their daily energies in merely fulfilling the desires of their own appetites. Having become arrogant and self-serving, the last in the line of tyrants is pushed aside by those who are close enough to the throne to notice his corruption, namely the members of the aristocracy (Polyb. 6.8.1). They, in turn, serve the state well initially. After all, these were the nobles so offended by the king’s excesses that principle drove them to take action against him. Unfortunately, here again, when the grandchildren of these nobles inherit position, they are ill equipped to handle the power of rule (since they were born to privilege and identify less and less with the problems of the common man). The aristocracy then degrades proportionally by each generation into an oligarchy, just as the kings degenerated into tyrants (6.8.5). The oligarchs then are banished or killed by the people, who finally assume the responsibility of ruling themselves. The people also govern well, at first. As long as there are any living who remember the days of oppression, they guard their liberties with a jealous vigor. Nevertheless, as future generations inherit the same privileges of democracy as their ancestors, yet without effort, they cease to cherish those benefits (6.9.5). Eventually individuals arise among them who, seeking pre-eminence, cater to the creature comforts of the masses, thereby hoping to win their favor. People sell cheap those liberties that have cost them nothing personally. Once the masses accept these demagogues, the cycle of tyranny begins again... Polybius believes that Republican Rome has avoided this endless cycle by establishing a mixed constitution, a single state with elements of all three forms of government at once: monarchy (in the form of its elected executives, the consuls), aristocracy (as represented by the Senate), and democracy (in the form of the popular assemblies, such as the Comitia Centuriata).10 In a mixed constitution, each of the three branches of government checks the strengths and balances the weaknesses of the other two. Since absolute rule rests in no single body but rather is shared among the three, the corrupting influence of unchecked power is abated and stasis is achieved.> sms.org John