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Pastimes : History's effect on Religion -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Volsi Mimir who wrote (99)	5/8/2003 6:29:06 PM
From: Volsi Mimir	Respond to of 520

Hogen, a Chinese Zen teacher, lived alone in a small temple in the country. One day four traveling monks appeared and asked if they might make a fire in his yard to warm themselves. While they were building the fire, Hogen heard them arguing about subjectivity and objectivity. He joined them and said: "There is a big stone. Do you consider it to be inside or outside your mind?" One of the monks replied: "From the Buddhist viewpoint everything is an objectification of mind, so I would say that the stone is inside my mind." "Your head must feel very heavy," observed Hogen, "if you are carrying around a stone like that in your mind."

To: Volsi Mimir who wrote (99)	5/8/2003 7:14:55 PM
From: Sun Tzu	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 520

Hmmmmm...I was going to write you long response, but having reacquainted myself with various schools of Buddhism, I am faced with the choice of either writing you a much longer response or a very short one...neither makes me very happy. Yes, the Yogacara school (which did influence creation of Zen) does not believe in outside reality. So in that sense your assertion makes sense, even though that does not sound like what you were quoting me. On the other hand, most other schools of Buddhism do believe in an outside reality. The universe does not exist just inside their head and I am not a figment of their imagination. BTW, I don't see how your post suggests that the universe does not have a reality of its own and is only within our head? That is the point I was debating with you over the past few posts. As to the matter of ethics of Buddhism, the portrayal here is inaccurate. The essence of Buddhism unconcerned with good or evil. It is concerned with the reality as it exists and detachment of self in order to ease the suffering. In general, when we do something "bad" such as stealing, we are more attached to the world than when we are just minding our own business. Higher levels of Buddhist training are just as concerned with the ideal of trying to fix the world and becoming everyone's nanny as they are with prevention of murder and theft. Mother Treasa would not have made a good Buddhist. The one exception to this, which by the way not all Buddhists agree with, are Bodhisattva. That is a person who has achieved such high level of refined enlightenment that if they progress any further, they will leave the earth and attain Nirvana. Out of compassion for the world they choose not to take the next step and continue to suffer the cycle of birth and death. Even so, the actions of Bodhisattva is not trying to be good or kind, he does not mix good intention with confusion. His communication with the world is spontaneously compassionate. As to the ethics of farming and what not, like all other religions, Buddhism has changed over the history. These rules are no more a core to Buddhism than not eating pork is to Christianity. The essence of Buddhism cannot be confined within rules. Buddhism is the only religion that encourages the people to step beyond religion. Here are some examples of such superficial rules that got mingled into Buddhism: - A monk will not put on the inner robe like the trunk of an elephant. - A monk will not go amongst houses jumping. - A monk will not climb a tree higher than a man unless there is disaster - A monk will not eat his food making the phuphuphuph sound. - A monk will not teach to one mounted on an elephant who is not ill. I think you can see the point I am getting at. Any decent understanding of Buddhism rebukes strict adherence to such rules. They were never meant to be cast in stone words sent from God. Sun Tzu