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Pastimes : History's effect on Religion -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Volsi Mimir who wrote (102)	5/9/2003 12:17:46 AM
From: Sun Tzu	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 520

> Define reality. It is that which triggers the perceptions you talked about. > If I am not around for that, it doesn't exist. I created my world. I understand what you are saying. I disagree. And disagree to a great extent. There is even some scientific evidence for what you say and it falls along the lines of alternate universes. But that is still incompatible with the gist of your contention and I continue to disagree. One of Buddhism's primary concerns is with seeing the reality for what it is and freeing you of such perceptual worlds as you've expressed. This is so high up there in so many schools that it is not even a debatable issue. The outside reality is out there in all its glory. It cares not whether you understand or agree with it. It is YOU who in an effort to cope with that reality builds a model of it in your mind. As in the scientific method, and I use the term in its technical term, the model is only a tool for predicting and understanding the reality. Unfortunately given that the model is simpler to deal with than the actual reality, most people tend to confuse it with the actuality. This is true even in the "objective" scientific world which every so often needs to be reminded all those simplifying assumptions, round off errors, and otherwise unstated unproven principles are nothing but crutches to let us deal with the actual outside reality (note the history of the discovery of Chaos Theory). Buddhism tries to help you see the reality with all its complexities for what it is. In so doing, it liberates you from such crutches and helps you navigate better. It also tries to free you from mistaking the words with the objects they refer to (which is really just another form of approximation to reality we use to make the outside reality manageable). Now if you don't like the Buddhist path, then I suggest you look at the works of Socrates as reflected by Plato. At Socrates time there were people who in fact made the same type of argument you made. There were also those who even suggested it is the words that have the true "reality" and that whatever they can argue with words is the reality for you. There are many amusing tales of how Socrates proved them wrong. And although Plato believed that we only see distorted shadows of reality (I can buy that to some extent) he never doubted that there is an actual reality out there. > There's something disturbing about holding a human brain... Well, I don't know about human part, but when it comes to animals I have eaten just about every organ you imagine. Brains taste too fatty for my liking but when mixed with eggs and herb they make good breakfast. Testes are best barbequed and had with salt and lemon. They taste quite good. Lungs are chewy if you like that kind of thing, but they are not very nutritious. Liver is very nutritious, but you need to clean it well and make sure it is healthy. My very favorite of course has been goat's nipples (breasts really). You can never fully appreciate life unless you've gone on a survival trip for a few months. If it was up to me, I'd make it a mandatory summer school for all kids. Sun (I think I've missed the point of brain story) Tzu PS. When I was studying Muslim philosophies, I once read about one of the founders of school of "Doubt" (essentially, "I think therefore I am but everything else may be just in my head"). This is about 1100 years ago and the guy's biggest philosophical opponent was Nazam (whom I have a ton of respect for). Anyway, one day Nazam sees this guy over the bridge on Tigris crying. It turns out that his son had died. Nazam starts to console him, but to his surprise the "guru" says his real regret is that his son did not get to read his latest book on the reality of "doubt" and therefore died ignorant. To which Nazam answers, "then perhaps you should not be so sorry. How do you know your son is dead? Add this the list of all your doubts and assume him to be alive". Upon this the man gives up his whole philosophy and lives a normal life.