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Politics : Dutch Central Bank Sale Announcement Imminent? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: philv who wrote (18373)	5/24/2003 11:30:43 AM
From: sea_urchin	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 81957

Phil > The best part is the fact that it has worked so far, and the world and economy has thrived Yes, it is so and that is an important observation. Indeed, those who support the status quo, and that means all the central bankers and world leaders, see no reason why it shouldn't continue. (Of course, with a few adjustments here and there!) > now we appear to be on a race to the bottom, with each country trying to gain some advantage by depreciating their currency against their neighbours and the US dollar. I don't see that. What I see is the USD is depreciating and other currencies are being forced, possibly against their will, and being revalued upwards. Because of their expensive currencies, especially against the USD, the exports of these countries have fallen drastically. Perhaps in time there will be a devaluation race but so far it hasn't happened. Indeed, because of the revaluation of most world currencies upwards, what we find is widespread deflation and not inflation. > Which means that money is only a comparative value, a con game. If you can get something real for the paper, you win. Yes and no. Paper money isn't toilet paper. It's a different kind of paper where the value is set by what others will give you for it. As you know, it's an offence to counterfeit it or try to copy it, so it is something special. > It's a confidence game Yes it is, but it's the only game in town. And it's too late to change it. > Real money or some kind of a portable store of value and wealth has always been represented by gold, and I believe its role in representing real money is increasing in awareness You are entitled to your opinion. To me, money is simply a medium of exchange, not an investment. In fact, these days with credit cards and internet banking etc one seldom actually sees the bits of paper any more. Even cheques. Everything is just a number, a book entry --- which is all money actually is --- an entry in the credit column in the ledger at the central bank. > Not a doomsday scenario, but an asset easily traded, and which does not represent a "promise" to pay, the opposite of all the creative debt instruments issued by various governments and organizations. But you are not thinking about using gold as a medium of exchange --- you are holding it (I presume) as a counter in a casino where you are betting that the paper money will devalue and the gold price will appreciate. And you are perfectly entitled to make that bet. In fact, you may even win on it. > In the US, the federal debt is calculated to reach at least 12 trillion dollars in the next 10 years. And that's if they are lucky! What people don't seem to realize is that's it's the debt which is the "backing" to the money (which is the credit). If all the debt was extinguished then there would be no money. In fact, the better the economy, the better is its ability to sustain taking on more debt. That's actually the problem today. The only agency in the US capable of taking on more debt is the government. The corporate world is unwilling because of business uncertainty and the man in the street is already swimming in it. That's why Bush is shouting all the time that the reason behind his tax cuts is to create business confidence and thereby cause the corporations to take on more debt. > I see money creation through debt the single biggest monetary problem and the reason to be positive re: POG. It may well be but, as I said earlier, it's the only game in town. However, if you choose to bet against it, also as I said earlier, you are entitled to, if you know how to, and you may even win, if you are lucky. But a word of caution, in case you think that gold is the way to go if you choose to do this. The gold price, as much as anything and everything else, is also rigged. The reason I say it's rigged is because it has to be --- the powers-that-be do not want any any alternative to the "paper standard" when it comes to money. Also as I said before, and I'll say it again, we are actually trapped. There is no escape from the paper money and the debt and the implications of all of this. You you can dream and you can wriggle but you can't get out!

To: philv who wrote (18373)	5/24/2003 4:46:28 PM
From: sea_urchin	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 81957

Phil > I see money creation through debt the single biggest monetary problem and the reason to be positive re: POG. It will take a lot of gold to "back" this lot. sfgate.com >>>Congress is sending President Bush a record $984 billion boost in the government's authority to borrow money. The Republican-led Senate's approval in a largely party-line, 53-44 vote Friday completed Congress' work on a measure that will let lawmakers avoid the politically sensitive issue until sometime next year, when another increase in borrowing authority will be necessary. Congress had breached the current $6.4 trillion limit on borrowing early this year, and the government has averted an unprecedented default only by having the Treasury Department shift money from various funds it oversees.<<<