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Politics : PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Raymond Duray who wrote (412565)6/8/2003 12:03:48 AM
From: Sidney Reilly  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 769667
 
And the "true believers" on this thread are also the same as the OSP. They see what they want to see in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Loyal Bushies.



To: Raymond Duray who wrote (412565)6/8/2003 12:31:53 PM
From: BubbaFred  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 769667
 
"Everyone has wanted to find the 'smoking gun' so much that they may have wanted to have reached this conclusion," said one intelligence expert who has seen the trailers and, like some others, spoke on condition that he not be identified. He added, "I am very upset with the process."

"It's not built and designed as a standard fermenter," he said of the central tank. "Certainly, if you modify it enough you could use it. But that's true of any tin can."

story.news.yahoo.com

Wonder what hinders planting the necessary evidence(s)? Too many reporters and eyes watching that the chance of getting caught redhanded is just too great?

Is this what the judeofascists have developed expertise in? Blowing something out of proportions and make them look like the truths? As always, we hardly find these stories in the local newspapers. The fiction still remains the truth. What great mind manipulation job!

-------------------------
Some Analysts of Iraq Trailers Reject Germ Use
Sat Jun 7, 8:58 AM ET Add Top Stories - The New York Times to My Yahoo!


By JUDITH MILLER and WILLIAM J. BROAD The New York Times

American and British intelligence analysts with direct access to the evidence are disputing claims that the mysterious trailers found in Iraq (news - web sites) were for making deadly germs. In interviews over the last week, they said the mobile units were more likely intended for other purposes and charged that the evaluation process had been damaged by a rush to judgment.

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"Everyone has wanted to find the 'smoking gun' so much that they may have wanted to have reached this conclusion," said one intelligence expert who has seen the trailers and, like some others, spoke on condition that he not be identified. He added, "I am very upset with the process."

The Bush administration has said the two trailers, which allied forces found in Iraq in April and May, are evidence that Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) was hiding a program for biological warfare. In a white paper last week, it publicly detailed its case, even while conceding discrepancies in the evidence and a lack of hard proof.

Now, intelligence analysts stationed in the Middle East, as well as in the United States and Britain, are disclosing serious doubts about the administration's conclusions in what appears to be a bitter debate within the intelligence community. Skeptics said their initial judgments of a weapon application for the trailers had faltered as new evidence came to light.

Bill Harlow, a spokesman for the Central Intelligence Agency (news - web sites), said the dissenters "are entitled to their opinion, of course, but we stand behind the assertions in the white paper."

In all, at least three teams of Western experts have now examined the trailers and evidence from them. While the first two groups to see the trailers were largely convinced that the vehicles were intended for the purpose of making germ agents, the third group of more senior analysts divided sharply over the function of the trailers, with several members expressing strong skepticism, some of the dissenters said.

In effect, early conclusions by agents on the ground that the trailers were indeed mobile units to produce germs for weapons have since been challenged.

"I have no great confidence that it's a fermenter," a senior analyst with long experience in unconventional arms said of a tank for multiplying seed germs into lethal swarms. The government's public report, he added, "was a rushed job and looks political." This analyst had not seen the trailers himself, but reviewed evidence from them.

The skeptical experts said the mobile plants lacked gear for steam sterilization, normally a prerequisite for any kind of biological production, peaceful or otherwise. Its lack of availability between production runs would threaten to let in germ contaminants, resulting in failed weapons.

Second, if this shortcoming were somehow circumvented, each unit would still produce only a relatively small amount of germ-laden liquid, which would have to undergo further processing at some other factory unit to make it concentrated and prepare it for use as a weapon.

Finally, they said, the trailers have no easy way for technicians to remove germ fluids from the processing tank.

Senior intelligence officials in Washington rebutted the skeptics, saying, for instance, that the Iraqis might have obtained the needed steam for sterilization from a separate supply truck.

The skeptics noted further that the mobile plants had a means of easily extracting gas. Iraqi scientists have said the trailers were used to produce hydrogen for weather balloons. While the white paper dismisses that as a cover story, some analysts see the Iraqi explanation as potentially credible.

A senior administration official conceded that "some analysts give the hydrogen claim more credence." But he asserted that the majority still linked the Iraqi trailers to germ weapons.

The depth of dissent is hard to gauge. Even if it turns out to be a minority view, which seems likely, the skepticism is significant given the image of consensus that Washington has projected and the political reliance the administration has come to place on the mobile units. At the recent summit meeting with President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia, President Bush (news - web sites) cited the trailers as evidence of illegal Iraqi arms.

Critics seem likely to cite the internal dispute as further reason for an independent evaluation of the Iraqi trailers. Since the war's end, the White House has come under heavy political pressure because American soldiers have found no unconventional arms, a main rationale for the invasion of Iraq.

Prime Minister Tony Blair (news - web sites) of Britain, who also used Iraqi illicit weapons as a chief justification of the war, has been repeatedly attacked on this question in Parliament and outside it.



Experts described the debate as intense despite the American intelligence agencies' release last week of the nuanced, carefully qualified white paper concluding that the mobile units were most likely part of Iraq's biowarfare program. It was posted May 28 on the Internet at www.cia (news - web sites).gov.

"We are in full agreement on it," an official said of the Central Intelligence Agency and the Defense Intelligence Agency at a briefing on the white paper.

The six-page report, "Iraqi Mobile Biological Warfare Agent Production Plants," called discovery of the trailers "the strongest evidence to date that Iraq was hiding a biological warfare program."

A senior administration official said the White House had not put pressure on the intelligence community in any way on the content of its white paper, or on the timing of its release.

In interviews, the intelligence analysts disputing its conclusions focused on the lack of steam sterilization gear for the central processing tank, which the white paper calls a fermenter for germ multiplication.

In theory, the dissenting analysts added, the Iraqis could have sterilized the tank with harsh chemicals rather than steam. But they said that would require a heavy wash afterward with sterile water to remove any chemical residue - a feat judged difficult for a mobile unit presumably situated somewhere in the Iraqi desert.

William C. Patrick III, a senior official in the germ warfare program that Washington renounced in 1969, said the lack of steam sterilization had caused him to question the germ-plant theory that he had once tentatively endorsed. "That's a huge minus," he said. "I don't see how you can clean those tanks chemically."

Three senior intelligence officials in Washington, responding to the criticisms during a group interview on Tuesday, said the Iraqis could have used a separate mobile unit to supply steam to the trailer. Some Iraqi decontamination units, they said, have such steam generators.

The officials also said some types of chemical sterilization were feasible without drastic follow-up actions.

Finally, they proposed that the Iraqis might have engineered anthrax or other killer germs for immunity to antibiotics, and then riddled germ food in the trailers with such potent drugs. That, they said, would be a clever way to grow lethal bacteria and selectively decontaminate the equipment at the same time - though the officials conceded that they had no evidence the Iraqis had used such advanced techniques.

On the second issue, the officials disputed the claim that the mobile units could make only small amounts of germ-laden liquids. If the trailers brewed up germs in high concentrations, they said, every month one truck could make enough raw material to fill five R-400 bombs.

Finally, the officials countered the claim that the trailers had no easy way for technicians to drain germ concoctions from the processing tank. The fluids could go down a pipe at its bottom, they said. While the pipe is small in diameter - too small to work effectively, some analysts hold - the officials said high pressure from an air compressor on the trailer could force the tank to drain in 10 or 20 minutes.

A senior official said "we've considered these objections" and dismissed them as having no bearing on the overall conclusions of the white paper. He added that Iraq, which declared several classes of mobile vehicles to the United Nations (news - web sites), never said anything about hydrogen factories.

Some doubters noted that the intelligence community was still scrambling to analyze the trailers, suggesting that the white paper may have been premature. They said laboratories in the Middle East and the United States were now analyzing more than 100 samples from the trailers to verify the intelligence findings. Allied forces, they noted, have so far failed to find any of the envisioned support vehicles that the trailers would need to produce biological weapons.

One skeptic questioned the practicality of some of the conjectural steps the Iraqis are envisioned as having taken to adapt the trailers to the job of making deadly germs.

"It's not built and designed as a standard fermenter," he said of the central tank. "Certainly, if you modify it enough you could use it. But that's true of any tin can."



To: Raymond Duray who wrote (412565)6/8/2003 12:43:44 PM
From: BubbaFred  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 769667
 
Who will remember it in a few more months, or next year? The lies are already ingrained as the truth. Time will forget and forgive and makes truth and lies indistinguishable. Murky water becomes good water if it is the only source and people will bathe and do laundry with it. In many societies lies and cheatings become acceptable as it has become their way of life and standards of conduct.

--------------------------------
And you thought the war was over

By HEATHER MALLICK
Saturday, June 7, 2003 - Page F2

I have found them. Yes, yours truly has tripped over WMD, the "weapons of mass destruction" that Junior Bush and Tony Blair used to justify their conquest of Iraq. Those missing weapons were variously explained as a) destroyed before the war b) not "literally" there -- and why aren't reporters more conceptual in their thinking? c) never there at all d) exported to Syria or e) in beakers in those two Winnebagos a panicky Mr. Blair keeps mentioning.

What's more, these WDs are not just M for mass, they're F for forever.

The embarrassing part is they were found not in Iraq but in Vietnam. We forget wars fast. Who'll remember Iraq next year? Who thinks of Afghanistan now? And who knew the Vietnam War was still being fought with WMDs?

What I am about to write upsets me a great deal and I have delayed writing it. Some details may be distressing.

Despite Colin Powell saying Saddam Hussein was the biggest user of chemical weapons since the First World War, the greater culprit was in fact the United States. From 1961 to 1974, the United States admits that it dropped 72 million litres of chemicals on Vietnam, most of it Agent Orange with a super-toxic strain of dioxin called TCCD. U.S. soldiers dumped an additional 260,000 gallons of herbicide just to empty their tanks. The Guardian reports that one soldier regularly dumped his poison into a central drinking water reservoir. He doesn't want his name used, at which one can only smile hollowly.

A Canadian environmental science company, Hatfield Consultants, has discovered that the dioxin hasn't dispersed. It has rooted itself in the soil at levels 100 times higher than we would tolerate on Canadian farmland, spreading through water into the food chain and from there into human blood, breast milk and fetuses.

The poison has blossomed through three generations of Vietnamese so far. It appears it will continue. Its toxicity is difficult to describe. When General Powell held up his tiny vial of what he said were scary anthrax spores, it hardly compared to a small 80-gram tin of TCCD. That tin would destroy New York City. The United States dropped 170 kilograms of it.

This WMD kills and maims unstoppably. The grandchildren of those who first saw the sweet-smelling yellow powder fall from the sky are damaged beyond belief. Agent Orange causes innumerable diseases plus almost every cancer known to humankind.

I have obtained this information from Web sites created by Vietnamese hospitals and U.S. war veterans abandoned by their government, as well as e-mail with a Vietnamese doctor attempting to care for some of Vietnam's 650,000 damaged children (500,000 have already died). Most of all, I have relied on a recent Guardian exposé by Cathy Scott-Clark and Adrian Levy. I cannot read it and look at the photographs without falling into sadness for days.

Some dioxin babies were born with two heads. Thankfully they are dead and float in formaldehyde. Another baby photographed in a crib has a massive pointed head and eyeballs that bulge far outside his face. Another victim is 19. In her photo, she looks about 6. She walks like a spider and her skin is septic wet red rubble. Her sister's fingers and toes drop off and she loses more skin each day as her mother watches. Polio, Down syndrome and profound retardation are everywhere. Some children look scarcely human. Some women, the Guardian reports, give birth to genderless squabs that sound like the pigoons in Margaret Atwood's Oryx and Crake: Lumps containing organs.

We're used to bad things dissipating as time passes. The fields of France are green now and their people healthy. Agent Orange is different. The World Health Organization says there are two ways to clean it up: Bake all the soil in Vietnam to 1,000 degrees Celsius, or pave the country with concrete and chemically treat what lies beneath. There are 80 million Vietnamese living on that soil. The fact is, almost nothing can be done.

A Globe reader in Vietnam tells me the Vietnamese are resilient. They tend to get on with things. "People have to manage somehow and they have a miraculous ability to do just that. Physical limitations are commonplace here and are not understood as obstacles to participation in quotidian life."

When I visit vnrc.org.vn (Vietnam Red Cross) and ogcdc.org, and contact a doctor who talked to the Guardian reporters, his e-mail messages back to me end with gentle good wishes for my family. I am stricken by this man's courtesy to a Canadian who lives happily with her wealth and health intact. He needs money to pay for operations on damaged children. He runs the OGCDC (Office of Genetic Counselling and Disabled Children) at Hue Medical College with small donations from around the world.

And there you have it. Agent Orange was the second time the United States used a WMD, the first being Hiroshima, but its effects were worse. It fits the Bush-Rumsfeld-Powell definition because poison is still flowing now.

U.S. politicians rarely think long-term. Whether we support or oppose their efforts in Afghanistan and Iraq, those were mere social calls by comparison. In Vietnam, the war is still being fought by proxy, via an American liquid that came in orange cans.

hmallick@globeandmail.ca

globeandmail.com