Hi michael97123; Re: "It sounds like you can't wait for predicted iraqi resistance to firm so you can finally be right?"
No, in fact after the Iraq war started I shut up for a while, until it became obvious that the locals weren't greeting us with the "expected" cheers and parades.
Re: "Stop chomping at the bit."
This from a guy who just couldn't wait to invade Iraq.
Re: "So fight the fight in trying to change policy ..." That's why I'm here.
Re: "... and if the current policy is continued root for it to succeed--it is in your interest, no?"
If I were Pollyanna, or perhaps, Candide, I guess ignoring the facts would be an option, yes. But I'm not. And besides the Administration has more than enough cheer leaders right now.
After this is all over and done, most of the right wing is going to claim that the only reason the Iraq fiasco wasn't a complete success was because of America's free speech, LOL.
Re: "This is really where the democrats will go wrong as well."
I seem to be one of the few who believe that if Gore had been in office, the same sorts of mistakes would have been made. Our terror problem in this country is due to one thing, and one thing only, and that is our alliance with Israel. The problem is that in this country, both parties twist our foreign policy to support Israel. This is due to the fact that so many Democrats in this country have ties to Israel, and so many Republicans are religious nuts who believe that helping Israel will assist Jesus in coming down to Earth and saving the sinners, LOL.
Re: "I remember the peace marches well and how sick i was at time to march with the extreme left anti-americans back then."
John Kennedy was a Catholic, he had a lot of Catholics in his administration, and the Catholics in this country voted in a solid block for Democrats. So when the Catholic leaders of South Vietnam asked for assistance (against the Bhuddists, who were setting themselves on fire and doing other, far worse, things), they heard and with their natural connections, couldn't help but get the US involved on their own side. That is, it's natural for a Catholic, when faced with two different versions of reality, to believe the one that is told by another Catholic. And the Republicans couldn't turn down a government that was supposedly fighting against Communists. The result was a disaster with 50,000 of our own dead and many more on the other sides.
I know that it's quite natural for birds of a feather to flock together; it's the most natural human instinct for groups of people. And people trust their own kind, Enough that they fail to see the point of view of the other side.
Just like in Vietnam, this same principle has caused the US to prop up Israel. The Jews vote Democratic and are sympathetic to Israel because of their ties there. The anti-communist Republicans began supporting Israel when Israel's foes sought support from the Communists. And the Republican religious right saw the founding of Israel as the beginning of the end of the world, which they desired.
In other words, just as in Vietnam, the two political parties are conspiring to support a stupid foreign policy. Since you're Jewish, you're unable to see the situation from an unbiased point of view, so it's obvious to you that one side is right and the other side is wrong. So I don't expect to convince you of much, LOL.
But I do understand the basic human motivation that drives you. It's loyalty, and loyalty is a good thing. Without loyalty no group on this planet could survive.
It's just that in this case, your loyalty is misplaced. And I understand how difficult it is to see that that loyalty is misplaced.
You see, during the Vietnam war, I was a youngster, and a conservative. I was too young to realize that even my leaders, (as opposed to the other side's leaders) would not always tell the truth. That Nixon did something that was against the law, was a fact that took some time for me to appreciate.
Your loyalty is misplaced in that you are supporting a policy that is hopeless. There are 100 million Arabs, and they breed at only slightly lower than the rate of bunnies. Meanwhile there are less than 10 million Jews, and in addition to intermarrying like mad, they just don't tend to have very many kids.
The result is that with each passing year, the Earth becomes a little more Arab and a lot less Jewish. Israel has no chance against the demographic facts. Their only chance at surviving to even a secular future is to pacify the Arabs, but they are hopelessly inept at doing this. Their problem is that they think that God is on their side, which prevents them from pursuing another survival strategy (that is, a strategy to continue a Jewish Republic into the indefinite future), which would be to increase their population by converting as many people as possible. Instead, they make it almost impossible to convert.
Of course the Arabs believe that God is on theirs too. He's not, but demographics are, and that's more effective than God.
-- Carl |
