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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: NightOwl who wrote (102114)	6/19/2003 6:11:57 PM
From: michael97123	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Night Owl, A majority of israelis were in your ilk in 2000. They got ara farted on with the beginning of I2. Now you want us to join your ilk again. And we say not so fast. At least get the bombers to stop. But they dont stop. And the stark reality is that israel is dismantling some of its more stupid settlements with its more stupid settlers while Abu Mazen cant get Hamas to even do as nadine calls it, a Hudna. The world is watching this. Israel will gain a little but sympathy will go to Mazen. Lets hope this leads to fund cut off for hamas and arab leader support for Mazen. Perhaps even arafat can come along for the ride this time. mike@myilkisbetterthanyours.com

To: NightOwl who wrote (102114)	6/19/2003 8:07:40 PM
From: Dennis O'Bell	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

I'm not sure I quite understood your remarks, but it's a simple observed fact for me that for numerous reasons (one could include rooting for the "underdog", proxy backstabbing of America, basic anti-Semitism, etc) entirely too many people who have no business even sticking their noses in the quarrel have taken an anti-Israel position and it distorts everything touching the debate, despite more or less ineffective attempts to hide this behind intellectual discourse of one form or another. Aside from the fact that they're Arabs, the Saudis hardly have more reason to take sides than the Europeans, who are largely neither Jewish nor Arabic. Saudi Arabia sits on the incalculable riches of some 24 % of the world's oil reserves, and to cap the lot the country has never even been colonized. There are surely fewer Palestinians who have been naturalized as Saudi citizens (ha ha...) than there are who have taken on American or one or another European citizenship. So what in hell is their problem ? It's the Saudis who have exported a nutcase variant of Islam and sent suicide bombers to kill innocent Americans of just about every ethnic origin, with some after the fact claim that it has to do with Israel. I think people should reflect on the fact that if Israel were not Israel, if it were a question of just about any other ethnic or religious group, the situation of the country would be totally hopeless by now, after 50 years of this nonsense. It has only taken about 25 years of civil war and meddling in Angola to make that country a poster boy for African continent dysfunction, with an adult life expectancy of some 40 years. Angola is somewhat extreme, but is in the direction of the norm, and not the exception. Too many people in the world simply resent success on the part of others. Some percentage has the energy to come to the USA for example, to make their future because we have a society that allows that more than any other. It's the main reason there is such a large Jewish diaspora here, along with every other ethnic group on the planet. Not because Bush is a pet monkey sitting in Sharon's lap, following a popular view in Arab countries. As an aside, I fear that Patriot Act Stupidities are serving to reduce this inflow of talent and energy, which are the core strength of our country. This is going to weaken us more than any false sense of "security" coming from routine rounding up of people with Arabic sounding names and faces.