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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Dennis O'Bell who wrote (102135)	6/20/2003 1:22:28 AM
From: NightOwl	Respond to of 281500

Good-Night Dennis. I'm not sure I quite understood your remarks, Well don't let that bother you as it isn't a prerequisite to anything of import. <g> but it's a simple observed fact for me that for numerous reasons (one could include rooting for the "underdog", proxy backstabbing of America, basic anti-Semitism, etc) entirely too many people who have no business even sticking their noses in the quarrel have taken an anti-Israel position and it distorts everything touching the debate, despite more or less ineffective attempts to hide this behind intellectual discourse of one form or another. ...Is this some kind of intellectual trap for the unwary, or simply an honest plea to end the "debate" and go straight to the mattresses? Certainly there is precious little in your comments that I can agree with. From the claimed simplicity of any fact "observed" by human eyes, to the belittling of statutory restrictions on your "so called" liberties, me thinks you protest too much. ...But, on a brighter note, these aren't things I would choose to debate. <g> I would however contest both the accuracy and value of this sentiment until the very last bovine beast comes home: Too many people in the world simply resent success on the part of others. From where I perch this notion is nothing short of a claim that there are "simply too many people in the world." If humanity were a used Chevy, your statement would no doubt be at the heart of one the first 5 sales/propaganda campaigns. ...Why it came in at the lowly 10 spot on The Ten Commandments is beyond me, but suffice to say that it's a necessary "myth" in any society of humans that such "resentment" is somehow evil and to be avoided. In fact, I'm afraid that I just have to go extremist on you here and boldly assert that if you ever find an animal that isn't "resenting the success of others" in the very manner you decry,... you can be 99% certain that you have discovered an ALIEN creature of some non-terrestrial "ilk." <Hoo><Indeed><Hoo> ...I'm sorry I can't claim 100% certainty on this, but in all honesty I can't rule out the possible "resentlessness" of a human being which has been infested by ALIEN parasites of some contrarian "ilk." Then too, there is the off chance of some shocking mutant gene being devised to turn the susceptible "others" into mindless slaves, a/k/a peaceful, happy, hard working citizens. At this point, I can't give the former more than a 0.25% chance of occurring and, based on current law, I have no choice but to conclude that the latter eventuality would constitute a "non" human transmogrification resulting in the creation of "property" rather than another "person." <vbg> I sincerely hope this clarifies my "ilk." If not I will have to refer you to my reply to Michael for a more complete exposition. <g> 0\|0 P.S. I don't really care whether Bush is a lap monkey or not. But I do expect him to "win." ...Or else...

To: Dennis O'Bell who wrote (102135)	6/20/2003 9:49:47 AM
From: Ilaine	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

>> So what in hell is their problem ? << Let me flip the question back at you and see if I can shed some light on the subject. In the United States there are a significant number of Christians who take Israel's side because of prophecy in the Bible, including the word of God, that Israel belongs to the Jews. Parenthetically, there doesn't seem to be any acknowledgement that God has, from time to time, kicked the Jews out of Israel because they broke the Covenant. Be that as it may, anybody who is cognizant of the facts would feel no surprise whatsoever that fundamentalist Christians reflexively side with Israel, even to the extent of believing that Palestinians should be expelled from the entire length and breadth of Biblical Israel. I feel no surprise about this. Do you? I'll assume no. Well and good. Let's put the shoe on the other foot. There is another major religion in that region, the religion of Islam. In fact, until the Zionist movement got going, the majority of the people in that region were Muslims. One of the central tenets of Islam is that the entire world should convert to Islam, or, failing that, submit to Islam by paying a sort of tax. Another tenet of Islam is that Muslims must stick together. At various times, Islamic rule was imposed even as far as Spain and the Balkans. It still is imposed as far as sub-Saharan Africa, the entire Middle East save for Israel, and as far as Indonesia. So, Israel, a non-Muslim country, is a thorn in the side of the Muslim world. Not only that, but Israel displaced brother Arabs, who are not content to have half a loaf when once upon a time they had the whole loaf. But why am I telling you this? You already know all of this. Can you not grasp what it means to have strangers come and take away your land? "Sucks to be them" even a child would understand. Unfortunately for the Palestinians, their reaction - blowing up innocent civilians - is insane. That's because their religion is, by and large, insane, but that's another problem. If this were simply an international dispute over ownership of land it would be much easier to settle. Once competing and completely antithetical religious beliefs get into the picture, rationality goes out the window.