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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Ilaine who wrote (102291)	6/21/2003 10:24:58 PM
From: Nadine Carroll	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Jews have awakened a sense of justice in my heart and I expect them to live by their own word. To this, they don't have objections. It's when you expect them to die by their own word that they raise a ruckus.

To: Ilaine who wrote (102291)	6/21/2003 10:52:55 PM
From: NightOwl	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Hmmmmm... When we learn about the Holocaust, it would make a stone weep. And then to turn around and see Jews, of all people, oppressing others -- what are we to think? It's beyond ironic. Should we just throw up our hands and say, "Go ahead, kill them. You're entitled."? No CB. In reality it isn't "ironic" at all. It's what people do. How could you expect anything less? When we can; when we must; when we "feel/reason" it will be advantageous; when the *G_d/Devil* commands it; whatever, ...it is simply what we predators do. It isn't a matter of "entitlement," ethics, or morals. ...It's just biology doing what biology does. Moreover, if we should ever become lax in our adherence to our rituals, some nasty little bug will arise to do the job for us. This "unfortunate" condition is certainly not limited to Jews or Moslems. We're all chips off the same block and live by the same rules. Of course, when I get to Mt Olympus I intend to force a "regime change." But until I can straighten out this mess you are just going to have to accept the sordid truth and learn to live with it. <Hoo><Sigh><Hoo> Well, I suppose you could choose to remain in denial and insist on living in the Great Myth that you can "learn" to NOT repeat your history. But then we'd have to lump you in with the Rational Analysis Trumps All Ilk ...And you know who lives there. <vbg> 0\|0

To: Ilaine who wrote (102291)	6/22/2003 1:13:29 AM
From: smolejv@gmx.net	Respond to of 281500

>>It's beyond ironic.<< Yes. Maybe it's a non-sequitur but ... here I quote. STORY OF ISAAC by Leonard Cohen The door it opened slowly, my father he came in, I was nine years old. And he stood so tall above me, his blue eyes they were shining and his voice was very cold. He said, "I've had a vision and you know I'm strong and holy, I must do what I've been told." So he started up the mountain, I was running, he was walking, and his axe was made of gold. Well, the trees they got much smaller, the lake a lady's mirror, we stopped to drink some wine. Then he threw the bottle over. Broke a minute later and he put his hand on mine. Thought I saw an eagle but it might have been a vulture, I never could decide. Then my father built an altar, he looked once behind his shoulder, he knew I would not hide. You who build these altars now to sacrifice these children, you must not do it anymore. A scheme is not a vision and you never have been tempted by a demon or a god. You who stand above them now, your hatchets blunt and bloody, you were not there before, when I lay upon a mountain and my father's hand was trembling with the beauty of the word. And if you call me brother now, forgive me if I inquire, "Just according to whose plan?" When it all comes down to dust I will kill you if I must, I will help you if I can. When it all comes down to dust I will help you if I must, I will kill you if I can. And mercy on our uniform, man of peace or man of war, the peacock spreads his fan.