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Politics : Moderate Forum -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: epicure who wrote (2601)	6/29/2003 5:41:44 PM
From: Thomas M.	Respond to of 20773

Not to bankrupt the country, just to push the deficit high enough to make people worry. Tom

To: epicure who wrote (2601)	6/29/2003 5:43:37 PM
From: Thomas M.	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 20773

Nice to see a big corporation lose their right to lie (if only temporarily): Supreme Court Nike Ruling Shocks Corporate World by Jim Lobe commondreams.org

To: epicure who wrote (2601)	6/29/2003 10:50:16 PM
From: TigerPaw	Respond to of 20773

When Reagan tried to bankrupt the country it could have been thought a mistake. Now when it is tried again with the known differences between the Voodoo economics and the Clinton balanced approach it becomes clear it is no accident. The fascist system is one of powerful corporations with a government complient to their interests. It is not all that different from fuedalism, which was a lousy system unless you were the lords and masters. TP

To: epicure who wrote (2601)	6/30/2003 4:34:15 AM
From: Raymond Duray	Respond to of 20773

X, Re: I think that was what Ray was saying. That is horrible if true. I hate to think of it as a conspiracy to bankrupt the country. I'd prefer to think of it as sheer stupidity. There was one absolutely astonishing moment when Grover Norquist was a guest on Washington Journal last week: c-span.org RealAudio Link: javascript:playClip('http://video.c-span.org:8080/ramgen/edrive/wj062203_norquist.rm') Show date 6/22/03 Norquist was listening to a caller suggest that in fact what the two Bush tax cuts amounted to was a theft of $2.4 Trillion from the American public. Norquist winked at the caller! As if to say, 'yup, you caught us, we're doing it. We're ripping the American public off right before their very eyes..... and they're too damn dumb to understand it.' There is nothing stupid about Norquist and the scheme he's hatched to destroy the social programs of the various levels of government. It is being done with malice aforethought and with great political skill. Assuming that the Right Wing is stupid is one of the biggest mistakes that moderates are making these days. Moderates simply can't accept the degree of malevolence that the Right Wing has toward society. The Right is smart, mean and determined. A terrible thing for a democracy, but a doggone windfall if one is an amoral capitalist. Speaking of which, I never thought I'd see the day that the Economist would come out opposing the madness of King George, but they've really pleased me with this opinion on the scoundrels at the Carlyle Group: economist.com "The secretive Carlyle Group gives capitalism a bad name. But dismantling the whole system......" ************ "I don't want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub." --Grover Norquist, Tax Cutter & Culture Warrior "We are trying to change the tones in the state capitals -- and turn them toward bitter nastiness and partisanship. Bipartisanship is another name for date rape." --Grover Norquist, quoted in the Denver Post, May 26, 2003

To: epicure who wrote (2601)	6/30/2003 11:53:38 AM
From: Crocodile	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 20773

I think that was what Ray was saying. That is horrible if true. I hate to think of it as a conspiracy to bankrupt the country. I'd prefer to think of it as sheer stupidity. The experience from up here in Ontario has been that the Conservative provincial government has misspent money on such things as a blitz of frivolous road-building and an incredible amount of ineffective infrastructure construction -- no doubt, to the financial benefit of political cronies who own various construction companies, etc... Meanwhile, there have been substantial cutbacks in funding for school systems, hospitals, environmental protection, etc... Once a bad dent had been made in the social services, then the Conservative government began its little Crying Game of saying it has been running out of money, so it had to start selling off provincially owned corporations, and....surprise surprise surprise... also selling public lands such as forests to its "friends" such as the lumber and mining companies -- so that they can "manage" these properties on our behalf... thank you, thank you, thank you, O Great American Lumber Companies, for coming to the rescue and buying our land for a song from a mob (and yes, let's not mince words... "mob" as in "mobster" is as good a word as any) of politicians who are in the throes of an Inept Money Manager act at the moment. Of course, barely anyone has fallen for their pitiful performance. Their stupid charades may have caused incredible damage to the province, but the provincial elections are looming near now...Harris (former premier) pulled a "Mulroney", resigning to run off to play with his golf buddies, leaving the pathetic Ernie Eves holding the bag. With the Conservative party's popularity dropping into the sewer, along with all of the other bullsht this capitalist agenda government has served up to us over the past couple of terms, it'll be Bye Bye, Ernie, some time this year. Repeated polls have confirmed that the public is absolutely PISSED, and that Eves hasn't got a rat's ass chance in hell of getting elected. I expect we won't see another Conservative government in Ontario for a couple of decades. If what happened to the federal Conservatives is any indicator, it'll probably be a CENTURY before they ever hold more than a handful of seats again. Anyone down there know what happened to the federal Conservative Party up here? Damned fine example of how the public can turn in absolute hatred against a political party and its leader if they start to feel like they've been lied to and screwed around with. Here's a little Canadian political history for you. Brian Mulroney took the Canadian government by a landslide and then infuriated Canadians so badly that at the next election, his party only nailed..was it 2 seats out of the entire parliament of Canada? I think that the Green Party probably even trounced the Conservatives that year. His amazing loss also opened the door for the separatiste agenda Bloc Quebecois party to gain a strong hold in the Canadian parliament. So there, you see just how much damage one incompetent and destructive squirrel was able to do to our nation. Interesting, isn't it? Now, let's continue onwards to the present. What happened to Mulroney and his party? Well, Mulroney suddenly decided to retire and run away several months before the next election, leaving the Honorable Scape Goat Mistress, Kim Campbell, our one and only ever female Prime Minster, holding the bag. That was a couple of terms ago now..and still, when you mention Mulroney's name at a public gathering, people up here will practically spit.. Yep, the man responsible for bringing the Free Trade Agreement (ha!! FTA my ass!!!) to Canada is the same guy who makes us sick at the very mention of his name. Well, Bush is on the same track. Should be interesting to see how many terms it will take before he pulls a "Mulroney" to run off and play golf, fish, or ride a horse around at his ranch, meanwhile leaving some even more inept jerk at the helm. BTW, the Bushies and Mulroney are old pals..fishing buddies, etc.. so I guess maybe our Ex-PM has been passing along some of his secret tips for tying flies along with how best to ravage a nation, infuriate the voters, and throw a screw into the country's economy...............