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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: KLP who wrote (105071)	7/13/2003 10:28:48 AM
From: epicure	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Sigh Again, all bad actors are not related. All bad actors are not related All bad actors are not related. Come on, say it with me... Of course you could go after Saddam for 9-11, but it doesn't make sense unless he is actually connected. IMO of course. Obviously it makes sense to you- and that is the point of contention in our discussion. The fact that you simply state that 9-11 is your reason, without giving any evidence for the nexus between your reason (9-11) and Saddam, is why I don't agree with you.

To: KLP who wrote (105071)	7/14/2003 8:57:20 PM
From: Bilow	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Hi KLP; Re: "You probably forget X....the militant Islamists/Muslims have openly stated they want the demise of the US. That in itself is an act of war." No, it was a crime. War is when governments do that kind of thing. Except when governments go at it, far more people are killed than the 3,000 at the WTC. Vietnam, for example, must have killed at least 1,000,000. They say that WW2 killed maybe 50,000,000. Hell, Hitler executed 6,000,000 Jews and another 6,000,000 other people over a period of about 4 years. That's over 8,000 per day. Every day for 4 years. Almost 3x as bad as the WTC attack, but every day for a full 4 years. And all that was only a small fraction of the people killed in WW2. So don't give me this BS about the WTC attack being "war". If you think that's war, then all you have proved is that you don't know shit about war. It's scared people like you, running from shadows and shooting into the dark, that cause real wars. Because you (and those like you) are an idiot and a coward, young Americans are dying today in Iraq, and more crimes are likely to be committed against us in the future, not less. You're trying so hard to be perfectly safe in a world that is fundamentally unsafe, but your policy is dangerous as hell. The problem is that we, as a society, are completely unable to distinguish between the Moslems who have committed crimes against us, and the ones who are innocent. Our bombs are dropped from 30,000 feet. Like God's rain, they fall on both the just and the unjust. And when they fall on the just, they turn the just against us. Our soldiers crawl in fear through the streets of Baghdad unable to understand the speech of the locals, or to read simple signs. Of course (some of them) shoot first and ask questions (through a translator) later. The result is that in addition to shooting the unjust, they also frequently shoot the just. And the just grow to hate us. No, the war on terror is not a war. In a war, two (or more) governments agree to go at it until one of them cries "uncle". (Note that Iraq has not yet given up.) In a war, you don't have to worry so much about who you kill because they're all enemies. Pretending that a crime is a war will eventually create a war, but you don't have the guts to fight a war. You care waaaaaaaaay too much about the safety of your own skin, and those of the ones you love. What you want is to press a button and kill funny looking foreign people (the vast majority of whom have never even given a US citizen a dirty look), but in as safe and convenient a manner as possible. This is why you are a sick puppy who will eventually roast in Hell. The Arabs are not like the Nazis. Maybe it will come to that someday, but it has not gotten anywhere near that yet. And if it comes to that, the truth is that our voluntary military has no ability to pacify any country in the Middle East as big as Iraq or bigger. Just to pacify Iraq alone will require us to bring back the draft. To pacify the whole shooting match is beyond our ability even with a full WW2 style draft. -- Carl