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Politics : PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Orcastraiter who wrote (432009)	7/23/2003 2:24:29 PM
From: CYBERKEN	Respond to of 769667

Killing Saddam's piglets is OK! When's that Wellstone Funeral for the piglets?...

To: Orcastraiter who wrote (432009)	7/23/2003 2:25:19 PM
From: CYBERKEN	Respond to of 769667

You can smell the bacon frying in Mosul. Saddam's piglets are DEAD MEAT. Let's ROLL!!!...

To: Orcastraiter who wrote (432009)	7/23/2003 2:25:39 PM
From: Bill	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 769667

Hahahahaha. You have no idea what you're talking about. Read up. Subject 53602

To: Orcastraiter who wrote (432009)	7/23/2003 3:01:41 PM
From: Ish	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 769667

Here's one that got life with no remorse- In May, 1996, five years after his death, Richard Speck came back to life in a pornographic video made secretly in prison. The tape, believed to have been shot in 1988, shows Speck casually snorting from a huge pile of coke, wearing woman's panties, rolling joints, having sex and bragging about living the good life in Statesville prison. At one point he says, "If they only knew how much fun I was having in here, they would turn me loose." A feminine looking Speck appears to have taken hormone shots as he proudly displays his overgrown tits to the camera. It is unclear how the jailhouse Tarrantinos obtained the equipment to make their porn video. Besides Speck two other inmates appear on the screen, Speck's black lover, or in prison lingo, "his bitch," and the filmmaker himself who casually pops in for a line of coke. The convicts do not appear worried about being caught. At one point Speck says that he did kill the eight nurses and says they died because, "just wasn't their night." He also acknowledges having so much sex in jail that he can't count how many times he's done it. Richard Speck died of a heart attack in 1991. Most of the relatives of his victims died shortly after Speck's rampage. The surviving relatives are outraged by the lax conditions and general merryment depicted in the video. Statesville prison is considered one of the toughest prisons in the nation. Ironically the prison was used for the riot scene in Oliver Stone's film Natural Born Killers. mayhem.net

To: Orcastraiter who wrote (432009)	7/23/2003 3:21:04 PM
From: Neocon	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 769667

We try to punish in a manner proportionate to the offense. Ordinary, premeditated murder would get a sentence of life with the possibility of parole. With some aggravating factors, it would get life without parole. My argument is that there are some crimes so heinous that life without parole would not satisfy the requirements of justice. Killing is okay if it is just, as, for example, when we kill in self- defense. If execution is an appropriate punishment, then it is just. The fact that other industrialized nations have given up on capital punishment is not very strong evidence that it is wrong. We are in advance of most of them in things like immigration, the treatment of minorities, and civil liberties. Maybe we are the one's who know better about capital punishment. The state takes over the administration of justice in order to ensure justice and keep the peace. Citizens give up claims to private vengeance trusting in the state to be effective in apprehending and punishing most criminals. If we refuse to execute for any reason, it will damage the credibility of the justice system in the minds of many citizens, and make them that much more likely to take matters into their own hands. Further, the state uses punishment as cultural instruction, to make clear what will be tolerated and what will not be, and to register degrees of gravity and/or guilt among various crimes. Refusing to execute heinous crimes introduces a note of moral confusion into the process, suggesting a sort of indifference to the circumstances of the crime that is at odds with the heinousness of it.