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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Lazarus_Long who wrote (70942)	7/23/2003 7:15:25 PM
From: one_less	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

"If not, then how do you get the same answer to "Is war murder?" You do not get the same answer. You get two person's subjective opinions. Even if you get two individuals who agree that war is not murder they may disagree on whether or not an act of murder can take place within the practice of war. Your question should be whether or not we can determine which one is correct using an absolute moral code. My answer is probably the same as yours. We cannot determine which one is correct with absolute certainty. We can only have our opinions about it. We can agree on the idea: Murder is the unjust killing of innocent victims with malfeasance. Is that good or bad? Common now…Isn’t it pretty obvious that will have unanimous agreement among sensible human beings that it is a bad “idea?” If so, it is an absolute. Ideas are not the same as the application of the idea. So, as soon as we have an application “so and so killed someone” we are able to have a view-point on whether or not the act qualifies as murder. We have no absolute method of determining which if any of us are correct. So we have moral ideals and applications of morality. Two different things. Whether or not you agree that the former represents an absolute can we agree that they are two different but associated things?

To: Lazarus_Long who wrote (70942)	7/24/2003 12:31:12 PM
From: one_less	Read Replies (4) \| Respond to of 82486

"So we're into matters that are total speculation?" Not at all. I have asked you to consider whether or not you would find universal agreement among sensible human beings that "The unjust killing of an innocent person with malfeasance" (murder) is a bad thing. You might find a few intelligent persons to give you some twisted scenario (not a commonly sensible one) but they would have to apply that rule to some circumstance to do that. All circumstance, which can never be viewed universally by humans, is subject to opinion and rightfully so. So, we can rule out this kind of exceptional case. That makes our moral (murder) absolute. You have a universal bad (moral) that all can agree on. You stop the discussion at that point because you might loose your alliance with someone like solon? Or you fear something religious is going to be associated with the logical conclusions? Or that religious agendas are gonna getcha? That's silly.