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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: one_less who wrote (70974)	7/24/2003 1:28:52 PM
From: Solon	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 82486

For the last time: It does not matter how credible or logically sound an idea is. Objective ideas of morality may attract broad agreement; but this has NOTHING to do with the question of whether or not they are OUR ideas or GOD's ideas. If they are our ideas then they are NOT ABSOLUTE. If they are God's ideas, then prove it. "Torturing for the fun of it" is a concept abhorrent to virtualy all human beings. But an almost universal agreement does not prove or even suggest an extra-human component to the idea. This agreement and abhorrence exists on the subjective level without needing to invent an extra-human source. Nor is there any necessary truth implied by virtue of agreement. There was almost universal agreement that the earth was the center of the universe. There is now almost universal agreement that it is not. Neither of the ideas were supernatutral inventions even though they had the appearance of truth and almost universal agreement. I have been more than patient with you. However, there is a limit as to how much time I will waste on one who does not appear to be making any effort to understand, but who merely seeks to evade whatever challenges a private agenda. So if you still fail to understand any of this, then Au revoir for now.

To: one_less who wrote (70974)	7/24/2003 1:31:05 PM
From: Solon	Respond to of 82486

"because you might loose your alliance with someone like solon?" With a pair of pliars, no doubt.

To: one_less who wrote (70974)	7/25/2003 1:28:04 AM
From: Lazarus_Long	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

you might loose your alliance with someone like solon? PUT 'EM UP, BUD! :-) Change the subject to politics and you'll see just how much of an "alliance" there is. He and I have gone many, many rounds. <i.The unjust killing of an innocent person with malfeasance" (murder) is a bad thing. No. You can't. Remember the Aztec, Maya, and those cannibals? I think they disagree with you. But there is no need to go that far. Soldiers, including American soldiers, are encouraged to hate their enemy. Ever seen any of the US propaganda posters showing Japanese soldiers in WW2? How about "the Hun" in WW1? The stories of German soldiers tossing babies onto bayonets? When they go out and kill those they now hate, are the murderers? Their countrymen back home call them the saviours of their country. And that's no twisted scenario. The years in which no war is raging on this planet are rather rare. But what of those Quakers who say war is morally wrong under any circumstances? No. I don't see that you can get to "absolute".

To: one_less who wrote (70974)	7/25/2003 1:28:52 AM
From: Lazarus_Long	Respond to of 82486

you might loose your alliance with someone like solon? PUT 'EM UP, BUD! :-) Change the subject to politics and you'll see just how much of an "alliance" there is. He and I have gone many, many rounds. I have asked you to consider whether or not you would find universal agreement among sensible human beings that "The unjust killing of an innocent person with malfeasance" (murder) is a bad thing. No. You can't. Remember the Aztec, Maya, and those cannibals? I think they disagree with you. But there is no need to go that far. Soldiers, including American soldiers, are encouraged to hate their enemy. Ever seen any of the US propaganda posters showing Japanese soldiers in WW2? How about "the Hun" in WW1? The stories of German soldiers tossing babies onto bayonets? When they go out and kill those they now hate, are the murderers? Their countrymen back home call them the saviours of their country. And that's no twisted scenario. The years in which no war is raging on this planet are rather rare. But what of those Quakers who say war is morally wrong under any circumstances? No. I don't see that you can get to "absolute".