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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Ilaine who wrote (107700)	7/24/2003 1:02:43 PM
From: see clearly now	Read Replies (4) \| Respond to of 281500

"It also said 68 percent of all Germans felt the media had not reported the full truth behind the attacks, in which some 3,000 people were killed when hijacked planes were crashed into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.<< More at: alertnet.org " While I certainly don't believe that 911 was a US government operation..that's silly!.. there is much more (knowledge) to it then we have/are being told... I have observed US news media for 45- 50 years and quite frankly don't believe much of it..a lot of propaganda...present post 911 times media stuff reminds me of the two quite separate versions of the Vietnam war..one in the US News and the other in the rest of the world. I remember early on after 911 Bob Woodward saying the first casualty of war was "Truth".....and 'aint' that the truth! I have learned more from this (and other) ongoing discussions on the internet about what is really going on in your country and what I am concerned most about is that their is a Shadow government with an over arching governing policy/agenda " which has nothing to do with the policies that this present Government was 'elected' on...and worse yet it appears that it is not even being debated in the Governing institutions. While Mexico (where I live)is slowly moving away from a government of/by powerful special interests towards a Democracy, the US is moving dramaticaly away from Democracy....towards a government of/by powerful Special interests... It will be interesting to see how long US citizens take to catch on? Arni

To: Ilaine who wrote (107700)	7/24/2003 10:07:54 PM
From: Ilaine	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

>>Iraqis remain unconvinced by pictures of Saddam's sons<< After suffering decades of propaganda under Saddam Hussein, many people refuse to believe anything they learn from any news media. Instead, they believe reliable information comes only from word of mouth, passed on from friends and relatives. This provides fertile ground for the wildfire spread of rumour and conspiracy theory. Less than 48 hours after the deaths of the brothers in Mosul, the first conspiracy theories about this event were born in the capital, 250 miles to the south. Sitting in a teahouse in Karrada, Ali Subhi al-Bedrani, 31, explained that the corpses on display to a worldwide audience of millions were actually doubles of Uday and Qusay. "They are not in Iraq," he said emphatically. "They are in Syria. They left their doubles behind. They have doubles just like Saddam had doubles and so the Americans killed the wrong people." Asked for evidence, Mr al-Bedrani, a fisherman, said his source was a friend of a friend whose distant cousin, Ali, once served as Uday's personal secretary. He believed this tenuous line of communication provided more reliable information than anything on television or radio. Other men in the teahouse disagreed with Mr al-Bedrani. Saadoun Wadi, 58, said talk of doubles was fanciful. But he was convinced the photographs could not be real and both Uday and Qusay were alive. "They are in America with their father," he said. There is a widely held belief in Iraq that Saddam and America have a long and close friendship. This theory, which some highly educated Iraqis subscribe to, originates from America's open backing for Saddam in the 1980s and its conspicuous failure to help the uprisings of 1991 that came within an ace of toppling the dictator. It also springs from the assumption that America is waging war on the Arab and Islamic worlds. Saddam killed many Arabs and Muslims. Therefore he was serving America's agenda. Mr Wadi said America decided last year that the ageing Saddam had outlived his usefulness and must retire. The war was launched as a convenient charade. Saddam, Qusay, Uday and their relatives were then whisked to America, where they now enjoy lives of indolent luxury. "On the night before Baghdad fell to the Americans, we lost our electricity for the first time. While it was dark, Saddam and his family got in their cars and drove to the airport. An American plane landed and took them to America," said Mr Wadi, a shopkeeper. His friend, Jafar Abdel Amir, 63, offered more evidence that Saddam and his two healthy sons are in America. "Do you remember Saddam's interview with the famous American journalist Dan Rather?" he asked. "At the end of that interview Saddam said, 'We will meet again'. Why did he say that? Because he knew he was going to America. Saddam and Bush are friends. Very good friends." "Politics is a deep sea," said Salim Abid Jassem, 53, a driver. "What they say is happening is not what is really happening. You cannot trust what they say." Sadiq Jaffar, 27, dismissed any idea that the photographs were genuine and said the two brothers and Saddam were probably in Russia. Mr Jaffar added that when the Russian ambassador left Baghdad during the war, American aircraft bombed his convoy. The ambassador must, therefore, have been carrying Saddam and the family and they will all now be enjoying life in Moscow. "If I don't see the bodies of Uday and Qusay with my own eyes, how can I believe that they are dead?" asked Mr Jaffar. The only points of agreement among the occupants of the teashop were that Uday and Qusay were alive, the photographs were faked and nothing the Americans said could be trusted. This total unwillingness to believe anyone except the theories of close friends and relatives will perhaps be Saddam's most lasting legacy. John Sawers, Britain's special representative in Baghdad, said Iraqis lived in a "weird world". He added: "If you think the British public is sceptical about what it reads in the newspapers, Iraqis are 100 times more sceptical." But he said those Iraqis "willing to be persuaded" would conclude that Uday and Qusay were dead. Judging from street opinion in Baghdad, those Iraqis are few.<< portal.telegraph.co.uk