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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: epicure who wrote (71337)	8/3/2003 11:37:47 AM
From: TimF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

We have clear evidence that a benefit available to some humans in our society is permanently denied to others. We have clear evidence that a number of benefits are being denied to some people and not just gays, its not as much an exclusion of gays as it is a provision of special benefits for married couples, brothers and sisters don't get all the benefits and friends (same sex or not) get even less even if the friends live together. What you are arguing is that there is a reason for that denial- and that such a denial is not unequal treatment, No that was not what I was arguing. Nor was I arguing its opposite. and is not using the state against them I am precisely arguing that denying a benefit, if if other people get the benefit and even if the benefit is deserved is not "using the state against them". If SI gives everyone on this thread a check for $100 except you, no one is using SI against you. If SI pays people $100 to attack you or vandalize your car then it is acting against you. Someone not giving something to you or doing something for you is not the same as someone acting against you or taking something away from you. Tim

To: epicure who wrote (71337)	8/3/2003 11:38:41 AM
From: Lane3	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 82486

I think the distinction that Tim is making is that the discrimination is passive, not active, that the state is not taking action but rather doing nothing. Yes, there is unequal treatment but, no, the state isn't actively abusing anyone. In complex situations, people can take comfort in hair splitting. I think the reaction is similar to Neo's yesterday when he protested that he wasn't proposing making homosexual acts illegal.

To: epicure who wrote (71337)	8/3/2003 8:01:25 PM
From: The Philosopher	Respond to of 82486

We have clear evidence that a benefit available to some humans in our society is permanently denied to others. Wrong. Totally wrong. All people have the right to marry anyone of the opposite sex they wish to marry. Homosexuals have that right just as much as anybody else does. Nobody is stopping them from marrying. There are limitations on ALL people who want to marrry. You can't marry a ten year old. You can't marry a person ofthe opposite sex. You can't marry a person of close consanguinity. Same rules for everybody. Same benefits available to all. No discrimination. You're just trying to create an aura of discrimination where none exists.